Worship Matters

1 | Plumbing

July 11th, 2011 at 11:03 AM

I think we can do a lot better with our worship music than using song tunes that are so tainted in the pop culture. We have so much else from which to choose. Better yet, let’s write a new tune and a sing a new song to the Lord.

2 | Dave

July 12th, 2011 at 5:05 PM

I agree with Plumbing!

I had hopes for this release but after previewing it on iTunes it sounds like everything else. I’m ssssooo bored with worship music today. It all sounds the same.

3 | Bob Kauflin

July 13th, 2011 at 12:51 PM

Dave, I find the strength of this album to be the melodies. They can be sung in multiple styles – a cappella, folk, alternative, rock, traditional, etc. Don’t let the skin keep you from appreciating the core.

4 | Bobby Gilles

July 21st, 2011 at 6:22 PM

Bob, have you ever read “The Hymns Of Wesley & Watts” by Bernard Manning? Essentially, it’s five of Manning’s papers on these two hymnists, published as a book. I think you’d enjoy it.

5 | Bob Kauflin

July 21st, 2011 at 8:51 PM

Bobby, it’s sitting on my shelf. I’ll check it out. Thanks!

6 | Gerry

July 28th, 2011 at 7:37 PM

Hey Bob,

Haven’t checked out this album yet but I have an ethical question given a quote from John Wesley.
Here is the quote which I found on NetHymnal.

In the pre­face to the 1779 Col­lection of Hymns for the Use of the Peo­ple called Meth­od­ists, his bro­ther John wrote:

“I beg leave to men­tion a thought which has been long up­on my mind, and which I should long ago have in­sert­ed in the pub­lic pa­pers, had I not been un­will­ing to stir up a nest of horn­ets. Ma­ny gen­tle­men have done my bro­ther and me (though with­out nam­ing us) the hon­our to re­print ma­ny of our hymns. Now they are per­fect­ly wel­come to do so, pro­vid­ed they print them just as they are. But I de­sire they would not at­tempt to mend them, for they are real­ly not able. None of them is able to mend ei­ther the sense or the verse. There­fore, I must beg of them these two fa­vours: ei­ther to let them stand just as they are, to take things for bet­ter or worse, or to add the true read­ing in the mar­gin, or at the bot­tom of the page, that we may no long­er be ac­count­a­ble ei­ther for the non­sense or for the dog­ger­el of other men.”

Does “mending” the hymn include rewriting the melody and harmony…basically writing new music? If it does, should we rewrite a Wesley Hymn given his request? Just some questions that I have been thinking about…

Thanks for your thoughts on this.

gerry

7 | Bob Kauflin

July 28th, 2011 at 9:20 PM

Gerry, thanks for asking. John was referring to the lyrics of the hymns he and Charles wrote. At that time it was common to change the lyrics of a hymn without telling or asking the original composer. Copyright laws today have somewhat put a damper on that practice, although it still goes on.

Musically, a number of the tunes we use for Wesley hymns aren’t the original ones. So if it’s an issue then it’s one that history has to answer for. But I see no problem in attaching new melodies to hymns as that’s the way many, if not most of them, came to be associated with one tune.

8 | Jeff

August 2nd, 2011 at 12:44 AM

Hi Bob,
the CD i won has arrived here in the Philippines. Prior to the sending, I asked Chelsea if you could include some books, especially ESV Study Bible. Unfortunately, Chelsea could not do it. If you can connect me to some people you know who finds joy in sharing gospel-centered resources for pastors here in the Philippines. Thank you.

I like the music.

9 | Paul E.

August 4th, 2011 at 11:53 PM

Plumbing said, “[...] than using song tunes that are so tainted in the pop culture.”

This is not the place for a huge discussion, but I wanted to mention two things. I’ll keep it concise, but anyone reading, please don’t interpret the conciseness as being short or cross. :)

The first thing: calling a tune, song, or style “tainted by the world” is difficult to define and defend. All music pretty much has come “out of the world” and has been or still is used for many purposes… good and bad.

The second thing: in my opinion, observation, and thinking, congregational/”worship” music is going to always be styled after popular music… or, the more traditional term we might use would be “folk music.” There’s good reason for this; if it was not what the culture (read: church membership) is used to hearing and even singing with, then it is rather difficult for them to participate on Sunday.

I would say these songs *are* new songs, and are, in fact, new songs unto the Lord. I doubt the Psalmist was saying, when he said to “sing a new song,” that these “new songs” had to sound remarkably different from whatever the cultural norm for songs were back a couple thousand years ago. :)

10 | Kent

August 17th, 2011 at 2:54 PM

Just picked this up because of your recommendation. Love it! Thanks for the pick. Enjoyed learning much as the last worshipGod conference, too. Also, kudos for going with a “Wesley” recommendation (I know you are a Reformed minister). The body of Christ is broad and we can glean much from across the spectrum.
There has always been the difficult line from the verse in “And Can it Be” though – “emptied himself of all but love.” It seems to be an inaccurate understanding of the kenosis of Phil. 2:5-8 passage of what Christ “emptied himself” of. Anyway, a minor point, perhaps, but worth keeping our theological filters on, even with some of the great hymns.
Love some of the new settings on this album, and rediscovery of some greats like “Jesus, Lover Of My Soul” and “Rejoice the Lord is King.” Will definitely use some in our church’s worship response.

11 | The Perspicacious Listener

October 25th, 2011 at 5:32 AM

That link on Calvinists & Wesley was one of the more encouraging things I’ve read online. Thanks for posting it.