I’m intrigued by some of the debate about non-Christians on a worship team. I find myself in the camp that says it is highly undesirable to generally include Nonnies, but I’m not gonna bash those who have does so - you shouldn’t missionary date either and yet I’m a believer because of it (well, by Grace, but yeah…).

I was wondering Bob, on another tack, would you consider the requirements for deacon-ship as applying to team members since they are very visible?

To those who have dealt with these matters outside of theory, you have my love and admiration - God hasn’t asked that of me yet. I hope I’ll be able to discharge the duty in love when he does.

Grace and Peace.

Great stuff. I agree with you on the fact that I need to think about those long term consequences. So many times as a leader I just want to play with a great band because it makes me more comfortable to lead and less nervous about things going wrong. However, that is such a selfish desire that needs to die. My job is to help people grow and learn more about God.

Thanks for your ministry and your resources. They are very helpful!

Tom

Great question, and I appreciate your wanting to think through this carefully. I think we have to go with what God has given us in his Word. He’s told us that the church is made up of those who have been redeemed by Jesus Christ. He never says that we have to have a certain quality of music in the church so that people will come. I think the limited fruit that can come from involving non-Christians on your team are far outweighed by the negative long-term consequences. More importantly, our services are not performances. They are gathering of the people of God in Jesus Christ through the power of the Spirit. Unbelievers are certainly welcome, but they can only be there as observers, not participants. Is that helpful?

Great stuff and I highly enjoyed the book.

This issue is definitely one that I have thought a lot about and I am glad that you addressed this issue that was written because I had some confusion myself.
I am currently leading Worship in New York City. Professional musicians, actors, and artists are all around us. Since we a three year old church there aren’t a lot of musicians in our church so we hire certain musicians. I believe in doing so it allows our church to Worship without distraction. I believe that if we didn’t have those hired musicians, the quality would suffer so much that even those who know Christ would have a hard time during our corporate Worship Gathering. I also believe that in New York, people are expecting a very high quality due to the fact that you can see the best of the best in the city any night of the week.
I do however believe that those musicians should not lead in prayer, reading of scripture, or song.

So question: Should I allow the quality of music to diminish so we can have all believers?

Thanks!

Tom

Thanks for stopping by. A few thoughts…

Asking an unbelieving neighbor to help me repair my home is a far cry from asking an unbeliever to help lead the church in praising God. To become a worshiper of God they must first receive a new heart through the work of the Holy Spirit and trust in the Gospel. Before that moment, they worship everything BUT God.

Every one who is saved is saved by grace through faith, but unbelievers aren’t saved at all. If we lose the distinction between those who are saved through faith in the finished work of Christ and those who aren’t, the word “church” loses its meaning.

It’s difficult to draw an analogy from Jesus’ life in this discussion because Jesus was never part of the NT church. At the very least we can say that reaching out to unbelievers in public settings (which we should do) is very different from asking them to participate in leading the redeemed in worshiping the Redeemer (which I don’t think we should do).

But, as you said, this isn’t an issue that need divide us. For me, it’s a matter of being faithful to Scripture on who makes up the church and what we gather to do on Sunday morning.

Thanks again for your thoughts. Please feel free to follow up.

First my bias is that I think it is acceptable for non believers to aid in the worship of God. I read most of the posts because I really wanted to hear “the other side”, and there were some very well thought out comments.

I would start from the perspective that every human being is a worshiper. We all ascribe worth to something or many things, which is what the word worship derives from - ascribing worth. Some worship Christ, some other gods and some themselves, or many other things. For a Christ follower everything we do is an act of worship, wether then you eat or drink or whatever you do do it all for the glory of the Lord. Picking up litter can be an act of worship, changing a diaper can be an act of worship, and so is singing a love song to Jesus. As I go about my day I buy things, I wait in line with people, all an act of worship I “do” in the company of non believers. If I need help with home repairs I enjoy seeking out my neighbor to help me repair my home as an act of worship and stewardship unto the Lord. In this way I am inviting an unbeliever to help me worship the Lord.

Inclosing I will “say” 2 more things.

1. We are no longer under the law but grace. No one is saved by doctrinal adherence but by grace through faith. We all do things and think things that are contrary to God’s desires because even the most sincere are not perfect.
2. Jesus spent most of His time in public, not the synagogue. While we were yet sinners Christ died for us. Shall we deny one of His lost sheep a chance to help us ascribe worth to our God because he is not clean enough? Who is clean enough?

Thank you for this forum, lets continue in love and grace to discuss this issue and may it never divide us.

Bill

Thanks for stopping by. First, when you ask “would you approve..” I assume you’re talking about what I’d approve of in my own church.

Since the issue is who makes up the “church,” I don’t think the size of the church changes anything. A non-Christian can’t meaningfully participate in leading others to praise the One who redeemed them. They can play great music - they can’t worship their Redeemer. I’d rather sacrifice musical excellence and sing a cappella than water down the integrity of the church.

Hope that helps.

The people on that team witnessed to me and I think if I’d been outright non-Christian or anti-Christian they would probably have told me that this wasn’t the appropriate place for me to be in the church. However, I wanted to know more about this Jesus guy and what made these people so different than the church people I knew growing up. They really did minister to me and helped me quite a bit.

As noted - I can see where this is aimed and I think that for a normal praise team/worship team where people really are leading worship I would tend to agree that a worship leader who is not a Christian doesn’t make sense. In my context, we weren’t really leading worship as such. We were perhaps adding to some people’s meditation prior to gathering, but I think more than anything we tended to be background music. (Sad, but true.) I learned quite a bit from that group, both about being a Christian and about being a better musician. Their love to me and willingness to put up with my questions helped me along the path. Still, had this been a true praise band or worship team, I’d probably lean towards the direction everyone else is leaning - members only or at the very least, dedicated Christians.

Excellent thoughts shared here and I appreciate the post. I think this is one of the more active posts I’ve seen. :)