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	<title>Comments on: More from the Text and Context Conference</title>
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	<link>http://www.worshipmatters.com/2008/02/more-from-the-text-and-context-conference/</link>
	<description>Resources for Leading Worship from Bob Kauflin</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 11:34:25 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Matthew Westerholm</title>
		<link>http://www.worshipmatters.com/2008/02/more-from-the-text-and-context-conference/#comment-6501</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Westerholm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 20:25:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Bob talked about patriotic songs 

http://www.worshipmatters.com/2007/05/qa-fridays-shou/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bob talked about patriotic songs </p>
<p><a href="http://www.worshipmatters.com/2007/05/qa-fridays-shou/" rel="nofollow">http://www.worshipmatters.com/2007/05/qa-fridays-shou/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Aaron Campbell</title>
		<link>http://www.worshipmatters.com/2008/02/more-from-the-text-and-context-conference/#comment-6486</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron Campbell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 20:31:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.worshipmatters.com/2008/02/more-from-the-text-and-context-conference/#comment-6486</guid>
		<description>I came across this comment on CJ Mahaney's blog today.  He was discussing the importance of reading and heeding the call of I Timothy 4:16 to watch your life and watch your doctrine.  However, I thought it was a big picture answer to the current discussion of how to let people know you care for them:

"It is the example of a pastor over a period of years and decades that will make a difference in the life of a congregation. And therefore I want to guard my heart from growing familiar with the pastoral world, growing familiar with God’s Word, growing familiar with corporate worship, growing familiar when I am listening to preaching, growing familiar when I am taking communion, growing familiar with God. I want to guard my heart from that. And the best way I can do that is by attending to his Word and applying his Word to my heart on a daily basis. I think that is the most effective way I can serve those I care for and those I have been called to serve and lead."

That's good.  In the meantime, let's not let bitterness take root in our hearts (I struggle with that), and remember to deal truthfully, but lovingly with those individuals God has given us to care for (again, a struggle).

Joyfully His,

Aaron Campbell</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I came across this comment on CJ Mahaney&#8217;s blog today.  He was discussing the importance of reading and heeding the call of  <a href="javascript://" title="Show/Hide Scripture" onclick="showhide_esv('scripturizer318979548');">I Timothy 4:16</a><span id="scripturizer318979548" style="border-color: grey; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 5px; white-space: pre; display: none; padding: 5px; color: grey">1 Timothy 4:16<br />
   [16]Keep a close watch on yourself and on the teaching.<br />
Persist in this, for by so doing you will save both<br />
yourself and your hearers. (ESV)
<div style="text-align: right; font-size: 9px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><a href="http://www.esv.org/">This text is from the ESV Bible. Visit www.esv.org to learn about the ESV.</a></div>
<p></span> to watch your life and watch your doctrine.  However, I thought it was a big picture answer to the current discussion of how to let people know you care for them:</p>
<p>&#8220;It is the example of a pastor over a period of years and decades that will make a difference in the life of a congregation. And therefore I want to guard my heart from growing familiar with the pastoral world, growing familiar with God’s Word, growing familiar with corporate worship, growing familiar when I am listening to preaching, growing familiar when I am taking communion, growing familiar with God. I want to guard my heart from that. And the best way I can do that is by attending to his Word and applying his Word to my heart on a daily basis. I think that is the most effective way I can serve those I care for and those I have been called to serve and lead.&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s good.  In the meantime, let&#8217;s not let bitterness take root in our hearts (I struggle with that), and remember to deal truthfully, but lovingly with those individuals God has given us to care for (again, a struggle).</p>
<p>Joyfully His,</p>
<p>Aaron Campbell</p>
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		<title>By: lisa</title>
		<link>http://www.worshipmatters.com/2008/02/more-from-the-text-and-context-conference/#comment-6483</link>
		<dc:creator>lisa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 15:32:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.worshipmatters.com/2008/02/more-from-the-text-and-context-conference/#comment-6483</guid>
		<description>Bobbie, some helpful insights.  Thanks. It's almost always a good practice to "ask a few questions."  If nothing else, it may get people to thinking about why they are asking for a particular song and whether or not it's a sound, biblical  reason.

Scott, thanks for your thoughts.  Your story sounds sadly familiar and common. While I am not a pastor and not in charge of the music, I am on the worship team, and some of us are in a position where we have the privilege of praying for those in charge and (hopefully) having some kind of godly influence as we gently, patiently, and humbly share what we're learning.  But for those who ARE in a shepherding role, your statement, "Our job as leaders a lot of the time is to teach people what they need, not give them what they want," hits the nail right on the head. I'm so glad you said that!!  AMEN! I think there are many people who don't view their relationship with their leaders this way, and don't necessarily think they NEED to be taught what they need.  Thank God for pastors like you, Mike, and Bob, who take this call seriously and strive to avoid taking the path of least resistance (for fear-of-man reasons) while truly loving and caring about those you're called to lead.  

Must be really hard to walk in pastor moccasins sometimes... glad I'm a girl!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bobbie, some helpful insights.  Thanks. It&#8217;s almost always a good practice to &#8220;ask a few questions.&#8221;  If nothing else, it may get people to thinking about why they are asking for a particular song and whether or not it&#8217;s a sound, biblical  reason.</p>
<p>Scott, thanks for your thoughts.  Your story sounds sadly familiar and common. While I am not a pastor and not in charge of the music, I am on the worship team, and some of us are in a position where we have the privilege of praying for those in charge and (hopefully) having some kind of godly influence as we gently, patiently, and humbly share what we&#8217;re learning.  But for those who ARE in a shepherding role, your statement, &#8220;Our job as leaders a lot of the time is to teach people what they need, not give them what they want,&#8221; hits the nail right on the head. I&#8217;m so glad you said that!!  AMEN! I think there are many people who don&#8217;t view their relationship with their leaders this way, and don&#8217;t necessarily think they NEED to be taught what they need.  Thank God for pastors like you, Mike, and Bob, who take this call seriously and strive to avoid taking the path of least resistance (for fear-of-man reasons) while truly loving and caring about those you&#8217;re called to lead.  </p>
<p>Must be really hard to walk in pastor moccasins sometimes&#8230; glad I&#8217;m a girl!</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Hill</title>
		<link>http://www.worshipmatters.com/2008/02/more-from-the-text-and-context-conference/#comment-6476</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Hill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 04:44:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.worshipmatters.com/2008/02/more-from-the-text-and-context-conference/#comment-6476</guid>
		<description>Mike I make no claims to be as wise as Bob, but I may can share personal experience that might help.

I face an almost identical situation a couple of years ago at our church.  I had been accused of having a "my way or the highway" attitude, because a small group of people in our church wanted songs like "the Lighthouse" and "I Saw the Light".  I didn't have issues with the Southern Gospel style and tried to occasionally do a few better songs from the same genre.  I even offered to come and play and sing some of these with them during their fellowships and bible studies.

Ultimately it wasn't enough, because they didn't want to just hear certain songs they wanted to make the church look a certain way.  Music was one step in that direction for them.  Since I was a servant to the entire congregation I had to be careful to not let the proverbial squeaky wheels dictate what was done for the entire body.  Because of that I told them that I and the other Pastors had discussed the direction of the music and were satisfied that what we were doing was Gods will for our body.  I was accused again of having a my way or the highway attitude, and we eventually lost 8 families all of them over 70 years of age.  I was, however, always gracious and tried other ways to genuinely minister to these people at times other than corporate worship, but it wasn't enough.  Twenty four months later, blessed subtraction in this case fits well.  I don't agree at all with the "sometimes you have to bite the bullet and give the people what they want" mindset.  Our job as leaders a lot of the time is to teach people what they need, not give them what they want.  That takes, time, patience, persistence, and unfortunately some heavenly sandpaper.  Hang in there brother.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike I make no claims to be as wise as Bob, but I may can share personal experience that might help.</p>
<p>I face an almost identical situation a couple of years ago at our church.  I had been accused of having a &#8220;my way or the highway&#8221; attitude, because a small group of people in our church wanted songs like &#8220;the Lighthouse&#8221; and &#8220;I Saw the Light&#8221;.  I didn&#8217;t have issues with the Southern Gospel style and tried to occasionally do a few better songs from the same genre.  I even offered to come and play and sing some of these with them during their fellowships and bible studies.</p>
<p>Ultimately it wasn&#8217;t enough, because they didn&#8217;t want to just hear certain songs they wanted to make the church look a certain way.  Music was one step in that direction for them.  Since I was a servant to the entire congregation I had to be careful to not let the proverbial squeaky wheels dictate what was done for the entire body.  Because of that I told them that I and the other Pastors had discussed the direction of the music and were satisfied that what we were doing was Gods will for our body.  I was accused again of having a my way or the highway attitude, and we eventually lost 8 families all of them over 70 years of age.  I was, however, always gracious and tried other ways to genuinely minister to these people at times other than corporate worship, but it wasn&#8217;t enough.  Twenty four months later, blessed subtraction in this case fits well.  I don&#8217;t agree at all with the &#8220;sometimes you have to bite the bullet and give the people what they want&#8221; mindset.  Our job as leaders a lot of the time is to teach people what they need, not give them what they want.  That takes, time, patience, persistence, and unfortunately some heavenly sandpaper.  Hang in there brother.</p>
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		<title>By: Bobbie</title>
		<link>http://www.worshipmatters.com/2008/02/more-from-the-text-and-context-conference/#comment-6475</link>
		<dc:creator>Bobbie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 03:08:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.worshipmatters.com/2008/02/more-from-the-text-and-context-conference/#comment-6475</guid>
		<description>I love how the Lord lets me "stumble" my way through the maze of cyberspace and find myself here. In the 80's I wen t church in a little Jr, High and later a High school in Va. We had a worship leader that had a way of parting the curtains so that we could boldly walk into the Holy of Holies. There are songs that can translate me back to that place and time. (Thanks Bob)

I want to say a little bit about the song "suggesters". Maybe if you talked to them, told them You pray over the song choices and will take their songs to heart and to the Lord? They may just be enjoying a memory of a time when they walked closer to the Lord and such a song will bring them back to that place again? They may just want a hymn, period, any hymn, so maybe update the music for their hymn? That is done all the time.And Amazing Grace always makes them smile.

Praying for you all dealing with sheep is never easy.
Because of Jesus, Bobbie</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love how the Lord lets me &#8220;stumble&#8221; my way through the maze of cyberspace and find myself here. In the 80&#8217;s I wen t church in a little Jr, High and later a High school in Va. We had a worship leader that had a way of parting the curtains so that we could boldly walk into the Holy of Holies. There are songs that can translate me back to that place and time. (Thanks Bob)</p>
<p>I want to say a little bit about the song &#8220;suggesters&#8221;. Maybe if you talked to them, told them You pray over the song choices and will take their songs to heart and to the Lord? They may just be enjoying a memory of a time when they walked closer to the Lord and such a song will bring them back to that place again? They may just want a hymn, period, any hymn, so maybe update the music for their hymn? That is done all the time.And Amazing Grace always makes them smile.</p>
<p>Praying for you all dealing with sheep is never easy.<br />
Because of Jesus, Bobbie</p>
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		<title>By: heatherly</title>
		<link>http://www.worshipmatters.com/2008/02/more-from-the-text-and-context-conference/#comment-6474</link>
		<dc:creator>heatherly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 03:04:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.worshipmatters.com/2008/02/more-from-the-text-and-context-conference/#comment-6474</guid>
		<description>Hi Bob! about 20 yrs ago you were the worship leader at the church I went to. 
You prayed with my brother to recieve the L-rd. 

We think about you and Mark often and how blessed we were with worship. i still sing those songs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Bob! about 20 yrs ago you were the worship leader at the church I went to.<br />
You prayed with my brother to recieve the L-rd. </p>
<p>We think about you and Mark often and how blessed we were with worship. i still sing those songs.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Hames</title>
		<link>http://www.worshipmatters.com/2008/02/more-from-the-text-and-context-conference/#comment-6468</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Hames</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2008 13:29:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.worshipmatters.com/2008/02/more-from-the-text-and-context-conference/#comment-6468</guid>
		<description>Nice to see lyrics from Taylor Sorensen onscreen.

That's a great song- how did it go down in a corporate worship setting?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice to see lyrics from Taylor Sorensen onscreen.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s a great song- how did it go down in a corporate worship setting?</p>
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		<title>By: lisa</title>
		<link>http://www.worshipmatters.com/2008/02/more-from-the-text-and-context-conference/#comment-6450</link>
		<dc:creator>lisa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Mar 2008 02:29:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.worshipmatters.com/2008/02/more-from-the-text-and-context-conference/#comment-6450</guid>
		<description>Mike, great comments, and very helpful. I especially like your reminder, "Let's sing about what He's done." That's a simple but extremely strong point. Thanks!  It does seem that some folks value sentimentality over sound theology. (I receive several email forwards per day that attest to this.) I totally agree with you about patriotic songs as well. Bob, do people at your church ever request songs that are sappy or sentimental? How do (or would) you handle that?  And how do you explain about the "shelf life" of a song?  I find it difficult to articulate the reasons that some songs should be  retired, besides "It's old and it sounds corny."

BTW, just received my order of $6 CDs from SG Music.  What fun! Thank you guys SO MUCH for having that sale, and now for extending into March.  How kind and generous of you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike, great comments, and very helpful. I especially like your reminder, &#8220;Let&#8217;s sing about what He&#8217;s done.&#8221; That&#8217;s a simple but extremely strong point. Thanks!  It does seem that some folks value sentimentality over sound theology. (I receive several email forwards per day that attest to this.) I totally agree with you about patriotic songs as well. Bob, do people at your church ever request songs that are sappy or sentimental? How do (or would) you handle that?  And how do you explain about the &#8220;shelf life&#8221; of a song?  I find it difficult to articulate the reasons that some songs should be  retired, besides &#8220;It&#8217;s old and it sounds corny.&#8221;</p>
<p>BTW, just received my order of $6 CDs from SG Music.  What fun! Thank you guys SO MUCH for having that sale, and now for extending into March.  How kind and generous of you!</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Westerholm</title>
		<link>http://www.worshipmatters.com/2008/02/more-from-the-text-and-context-conference/#comment-6446</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Westerholm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Feb 2008 23:27:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.worshipmatters.com/2008/02/more-from-the-text-and-context-conference/#comment-6446</guid>
		<description>While we wait for Bob to give us the correct answer, I'd suggest that singing songs the congregation wants can be wise or wicked.  Wise if the songs will "magnify the glory of God in Christ" and wicked if reason is to please man.  Wicked may be a strong word - but they were both "w"s!)

While a blog comment is too small a place for a full treatment on the subject (and I am not qualified to treat the subject fully), I offer this story.

My father-in-law is a pastor in rural Nebraska at a church of about 80.  He had been their pastor for almost 7 years, but still felt like an outsider.  Meanwhile, he had pursued a lifelong dream and became a registered Emergency Medical Technician.

Several months later, when he was the first on the scene of a severe car accident, he was instrumental in saving the life of a high-schooler.  He told me that the next few weeks were the first time that he felt accepted by the community.

So, a long comment to say there are many ways to love the people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While we wait for Bob to give us the correct answer, I&#8217;d suggest that singing songs the congregation wants can be wise or wicked.  Wise if the songs will &#8220;magnify the glory of God in Christ&#8221; and wicked if reason is to please man.  Wicked may be a strong word - but they were both &#8220;w&#8221;s!)</p>
<p>While a blog comment is too small a place for a full treatment on the subject (and I am not qualified to treat the subject fully), I offer this story.</p>
<p>My father-in-law is a pastor in rural Nebraska at a church of about 80.  He had been their pastor for almost 7 years, but still felt like an outsider.  Meanwhile, he had pursued a lifelong dream and became a registered Emergency Medical Technician.</p>
<p>Several months later, when he was the first on the scene of a severe car accident, he was instrumental in saving the life of a high-schooler.  He told me that the next few weeks were the first time that he felt accepted by the community.</p>
<p>So, a long comment to say there are many ways to love the people.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Easter</title>
		<link>http://www.worshipmatters.com/2008/02/more-from-the-text-and-context-conference/#comment-6442</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Easter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Feb 2008 17:35:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.worshipmatters.com/2008/02/more-from-the-text-and-context-conference/#comment-6442</guid>
		<description>Lisa,

My concern with songs like "The Lighthouse" and "I Saw the Light" is purely lyrical.  For example- The Lighthouse equates Jesus with a lighthouse that shows the way, keeps him from hitting the rocks, but nothing of his death, burial, or resurrection.  Nothing about furthermore, the lighthouse is called old, the "big ships" don't come around anymore, and it seems to be stuck up on a hill.  Some confusing metaphors.

"I Saw the Light" doesn't have the confusing metaphors, but my main beef with this one is that it comes across as very me-centered.

Regarding patriotic songs, I desire to be very clear regarding the unique claims of Christ and the Gospel in our meetings, and want to avoid any association with a particular nation and God's blessings.  Furthermore, while we are a predominantly Caucasian church we do have believers from Singapore, Korea, Zimbabwe, and other countries that are a constant reminder that people from every nation have been brought near because of the blood of Christ- let's sing about what He's done.

Two weeks ago I had someone complain about a song that we sang, and immediately received an email from someone who said it was on of their favorites.  So, who do I listen to in that situation?  The answer is neither, I think.  As Bob stated above, we have a call to be faithful, to have a theological agenda, and a motivation to help people have a clearer picture of the Savior when they leave.  I'm thankful for encouragement, and willing to grow through criticism, but these should not be what guide us from week to week.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lisa,</p>
<p>My concern with songs like &#8220;The Lighthouse&#8221; and &#8220;I Saw the Light&#8221; is purely lyrical.  For example- The Lighthouse equates Jesus with a lighthouse that shows the way, keeps him from hitting the rocks, but nothing of his death, burial, or resurrection.  Nothing about furthermore, the lighthouse is called old, the &#8220;big ships&#8221; don&#8217;t come around anymore, and it seems to be stuck up on a hill.  Some confusing metaphors.</p>
<p>&#8220;I Saw the Light&#8221; doesn&#8217;t have the confusing metaphors, but my main beef with this one is that it comes across as very me-centered.</p>
<p>Regarding patriotic songs, I desire to be very clear regarding the unique claims of Christ and the Gospel in our meetings, and want to avoid any association with a particular nation and God&#8217;s blessings.  Furthermore, while we are a predominantly Caucasian church we do have believers from Singapore, Korea, Zimbabwe, and other countries that are a constant reminder that people from every nation have been brought near because of the blood of Christ- let&#8217;s sing about what He&#8217;s done.</p>
<p>Two weeks ago I had someone complain about a song that we sang, and immediately received an email from someone who said it was on of their favorites.  So, who do I listen to in that situation?  The answer is neither, I think.  As Bob stated above, we have a call to be faithful, to have a theological agenda, and a motivation to help people have a clearer picture of the Savior when they leave.  I&#8217;m thankful for encouragement, and willing to grow through criticism, but these should not be what guide us from week to week.</p>
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