Can Christian Musicians Play Secular Music for God’s Glory?

Jan18

Can Christian Musicians Play Secular Music for God’s Glory?

Steve left a comment on a previous post, asking about the validity of a secular music “ministry,” referencing a comment Phil Keaggy made years ago about the lack of spiritual Christians involved in the secular music field. I received an e-mail recently asking a similar question about the legitimacy of Christian musicians pursuing a career in secular pop music. How should we think about it? Is it always wrong? It is something we should encourage?Here are some thoughts I’ve shared over the years with individuals who were trying to determine God’s will for their lives in this area.

The most important question to ask (and sometimes the most difficult to answer) is, “What are my motives for wanting to be involved in secular music?”

While I never assume someone’s motives will be completely pure, there’s a significant difference between someone who lives to play on stage and someone who lives to serve others with their gifts. If there’s any doubt about why I want to play music outside the church, it’s a good idea to ask others I respect for their honest evaluation of my motives.

A Christian’s success in the general marketplace is no sign one way or the other that the kingdom is advancing or the Gospel is being proclaimed.

A chart-topper isn’t necessarily a sign of God’s blessing. It might be the result of savvy marketing or great musicianship. In many “crossover” songs, the lyrics fail to communicate anything that’s distinctly Christian. Also, when a Christian song becomes popular people can assume there’s no difference between secular musicians and Christian ones – it’s all about the music and the money. God can use Christian musicians in the general marketplace to advance the Gospel – but he doesn’t need them. The church is and always will be the primary means God uses to spread the Gospel and to make disciples.

Secular music doesn’t necessarily mean godless or anti-Christian.

There are countless examples of popular songs that present moral values, insightful perspectives, and meaningful commentary on life that don’t specifically reference Scripture. The success of songs like “I Can Only Imagine,” “Butterfly Kisses,” and “Meant to Live,” are clear evidence of that. We can use our music to entertain without glamorizing or promoting the idols of materialism, pride, and self-centeredness.

We can’t be certain about a musician’s motives from a distance.

While we may be able to infer conclusions from a person’s dress, language, attitudes, and actions, it can be difficult to tell the difference between an unsaved rebel and an uninformed believer. Few of us would do very well if the details of our lives were published for millions to read about and critique. That doesn’t mean musicians who claim to be Christian are above public evaluation or scrutiny. It just means that in most cases we should focus more on disparities than pronouncing final judgments. At the very least, our private prayers for an artist should equal our public critique.

Being involved in secular music is no justification for abandoning the church or minimizing our faith.

A Christian musician may not overtly sing about salvation or the cross, or play music composed by Christians. But we can never state that our Christianity takes a back seat to our musicianship. There are no musicians who “happen” to be Christians. Our identity as Christians governs everything else we do. In a challenging little book entitled Imagine: A Vision for Christians in the Arts, Steve Turner writes: “I sometimes hear Christians justify mentioning their weaknesses in their art because ‘I’m a sinner like everyone else.’ That is just not true. The Christian isn’t a sinner like everyone else because a Christian is a forgiven sinner, and this alters his or her whole relationship to sin.” Basically, the cross changes everything. The Gospel redefines our priorities, redirects our passions, and reshapes our worldview. We now live our entire lives “by the mercies of God” ( Rom. 12:1).

The world needs to see people in every arena who have been genuinely changed by the gospel.

Christian musicians in the general marketplace have the opportunity to influence non-Christians not only with their music, but with their lives. God may give them opportunities to share the Gospel with others who may never be reached otherwise. Kerry Livgren and Dave Hope are two artists who made a difference in that way. There are many more. Some Christians will serve the church in the church. Others will serve the church outside the church. Both are demonstrating through their lives that Jesus is the only Savior and sovereign Ruler of the world.

Not all music written and sung by Christians needs to expound the full Gospel.

Russ Bremeier, in a Music Connection e-mail, writes, “Some music explicitly shares the Gospel, and some merely plants a seed that can lead to the Gospel. Our art is a diverse reflection of who we are as the body of Christ. Whether it’s used in the church, on the radio, on a television program, or even in a 30-second advertisement, we can rest easy knowing that God can use the music we make in numerous ways to serve his purposes.” May there be music of all types that’s written from the perspective of those who live in light of heaven’s joys and realities.

Bottom line: Know your heart and seek to make music for the glory of Jesus Christ, no matter where you play or sing. Our music isn’t about us. It’s about drawing attention to the God who gave us music in the first place. No other kind of music is going to last anyway.

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This entry was posted on Friday, January 18th, 2008 at 6:20 pm and is filed under Culture and Current Events, Musicians. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

25 Comments »

Bob — thanks for sharing your thoughts. A fuller explanation of my perspective follows.

As a Christian who “happens” to be a musician, I am privileged to be able to serve God in my local church as a musician. This is my main musical area of focus (worship leader / guitarist). However, as a tuba player, I play classical chamber music in a local quintet in a variety of venues — some local church services, some completely secular settings. And as a guitarist, I’m also looking for enough spare time in my schedule to work up a set of “positive” secular music to play at the local “sandwich / coffee shop”, simply “just for fun.” As a Christian, I view I Cor. 10:31
This text is from the ESV Bible. Visit www.esv.org to learn about the ESV.

as applying in all situations, from church guitarist to secular brass quintet performances to my day job as an engineering manager. And of course, this will apply to secular music in a local secular venue as well. I will most certainly look for some way to mention my primary use of guitar in a church setting, and perhaps toss out a commercial for my local church. But the audience in this secular setting won’t be there for a sermon, so I’ll have to be brief. If God uses this situation to draw anyone to visit my church (or any church), then great! If not, then at least I hope to do a quality job, to have fun, and to serve the audience so that they will also enjoy the performance.

I am confident that a Christian, having fun in a secular setting, using “good clean lyrics” (modeling holiness without explicitly saying so) can certainly be used by the Holy Spirit to both bring glory to God, to dispel myths about Christians, and may even plant a seed of interest or curiosity that could eventually lead someone to peek into a church when they otherwise wouldn’t have.

It’s too bad when I see fellow believers who somehow feel guilty about having fun, or getting involved in their community in any of a number of “secular” ways. It almost seems that some feel there must be some explicit spiritual rationalization for everything they do. I place “everything I do” squarely under the scrutiny of I Cor. 10:31
This text is from the ESV Bible. Visit www.esv.org to learn about the ESV.

, and also rejoice in the liberty permitted by this verse and by Scripture overall.

It’s the community who needs salt and light, not the church. Pick your area or areas of service, and serve God as you have opportunity. This can be in a secular music setting or on a bowling team. Build relationships and let God provide the witnessing opportunities. We never know which situations will result in good fruit.

I concur with Bob’s advice, above. Lots of good observations are listed. I think in addition to the above guidance, that a believer who spends regular time in God’s Word, who is living a Spirit empowered life, will be led into a wide range of “appropriate” situations consistent with their personality and interests, where they can glorify God — regardless of whether the setting is “spiritual” or secular. These situations will be very different for different people. And I believe the Holy Spirit will also provide conviction of improper motives and of improper settings that wisdom would suggest have the likelihood of “handicapping” a believer’s ability to be effective salt and light due to the circumstances or location involved. But we need to be sensitive to God’s leading.

My approach is to seek God first, to make service to the Body of Christ my priority, and to enjoy the freedom God provides to enjoy other opportunities as I strive to walk with Him. If I’m filled with His Spirit, I’m confident that I can be used to provide a positive witness and influence, even in “secular” situations (musical or otherwise) — the salt and light Christ mentions in Matthew’s Gospel.

Best Regards,

Steve Inman
Kokomo, Indiana USA

Comment by Steve Inman — January 18, 2008 @ 8:17 pm
One more thing: The intent of Bob’s comments seem to come from the perspective that the two primary possibilities are that we either serve God with our musical talents in a church setting, or else our intention is to seek fame and fortune in the pop/rock industry. But what about a Christian who plays oboe? It is unlikely that he/she will find a spot in the Praise Band! (no offense intended to the oboists reading this) What about the clarinet player in the community band who is a Spirit filled believer?

I have placed a follow-up post (more thoughts on this same topic) in the comment section of the original article Bob quotes in the first line of this blog: “Whose glory do we make music for?” I submit that this is truly the bottom line: are we striving to serve God as His ambassador, or seeking to boost our own egos, striving after vanity? The instrument, the setting, and the style of music being played are a very minor element in the equation when considering where a Christian who happens to be a musician can be used by the Holy Spirit to bring glory to God. Consider my comments left at the previous blog regarding Tony Kniffen!

There are certainly situations that would be plainly foolish to attempt, as you’d be waving a few pearls in front of a large herd of swine. I wouldn’t try to provide a set of “wholesome folk music” to a drunken audience in a rowdy bar. But I would not condemn a brother or sister who had the resolve and conviction to try this. I wouldn’t recommend it either, and I simply wouldn’t consider this to be the best use of my time ….

Rather than ask a brother, “Why are you doing THAT?”, I prefer to ask MYSELF, “Why SHOULDN’T I be doing this?”, when I consider the various ways I can creatively employ my musical gifts in the “hobby” context (outside of my primary focus as a worship leader). If the civic theater opportunity would merely provide musical support for a blatantly ungodly message, I have my answer to the why NOT question. If agreeing to teach guitar lessons in the local music store would leave necessary home projects undone, I again may have my answer. If the setting is a wholesome one, where folks are coming for general entertainment, then “Why SHOULDN’T” the musician be a Christian? … a Christian who will perform in a humble manner and who is seeking to be an ambassador for Christ? … rather than an unbelieving musician who may perform something outside of the quality standard Paul mentions in Phil 4:8
This text is from the ESV Bible. Visit www.esv.org to learn about the ESV.

? Why not?

For His glory,

Steve Inman
Kokomo, Indiana USA

Comment by Steve Inman — January 18, 2008 @ 11:08 pm
Hey Bob!
Thanks for this post… I think I shared this analogy with you a while back:

For me, playing in a band outside of church is like playing on the church softball team. I’ve done both through the years and enjoyed both:

- it’s fun
- it’s rewarding
- it takes hard work and diligent practice
- you do it along with your friends
- it hopefully doesn’t take up too much time out of the week
- you end up doing it in front of some kind of audience
- you get to meet and interact with new people, hopefully in a godly way
- and… it’s ultimately not my primary “ministry”. Our whole lives are ministry, but our primary ministry is playing music for the local church.

- RG

Comment by Rich — January 19, 2008 @ 7:47 am
Well put Bob. I have been affected by this verse recently as it applies to my music and writing.
John 7:18
This text is from the ESV Bible. Visit www.esv.org to learn about the ESV.

“The one who speaks on his own authority seeks his own glory…” another version says “he who speaks from himself seeks his own glory”. I think that wether you are pursuing a career or just playing at a coffee house the question is where is the motivation coming from? It is so easy in this situation to let money or popularity or self fullfilment become the motivation behind the music instead of glorifying God and serving others. Is God sending me or am I sending myself… I think I wonder about that everyday.

-jonathan

Comment by Jonathan Baird — January 19, 2008 @ 1:03 pm
Where is our heart? Because where our treasures will be, also our heart will be there. It always comes down to that. Where is our heart.

Comment by Gabriel Gagnon — January 19, 2008 @ 2:22 pm
[…] TMZ Staff wrote an interesting post today onHere’s a quick excerptSteve left a comment on a previous post, asking about the validity of a secular music “ministry,” referencing a comment Phil Keaggy made years ago about the lack of spiritual Christians involved in the secular music field. … […]

Pingback by Can Christian Musicians Play Secular Music for God’s Glory? — January 19, 2008 @ 10:23 pm
The ministry of the 2 Christian musicians that you mentioned, Kerry Livgren and David Hope forever changed my life. God was pleased to use their musicanship and service in Kansas and later AD to bring me to faith in Jesus Christ. By God’s grace this wayward son is a Christian now!

Comment by Lee Rumpel — January 21, 2008 @ 10:38 am
Hey, Bob. Great post. How about this situation: a band made up of Christian kids, writing Christian lyrics (although to be honest they are not always straighforward and they can be hard to understand because of the style of music), and truly desiring to be a light in a dark place, opens for a secular band in a secular venue, amid other opening secular bands that are decidedly raunchy. I know I’m not the first person to wonder whether this is a wise idea or not. At our house we call it the “P.O.D. touring with Korn” dilemma; it has been an ongoing discussion for quite some time now and is currently hitting really close to home. Because I have “separatist” leanings, I don’t trust my heart on this one, but I think I do have some legitimate concerns. I’d be open to any wise counsel from committed Christians!

Comment by lisa — January 21, 2008 @ 1:06 pm
[…] In The “Secular” Music Industry Posted by Christopher Gates under Music Here is a great post on whether or not a Christian can live a God-centered, Christ-exalting life making a […]

Pingback by Great Point :: Christians In The “Secular” Music Industry « Vintage Christianity — January 21, 2008 @ 1:20 pm
Thanks for the post. I’ve been watching for it for a while, and it was well worth the wait. It helps shed some light on this issue that is close to my heart.

Comment by Alex — January 22, 2008 @ 2:21 pm
Lisa,
I don’t really understand how a band that calls it’s self christian could tour with Korn. But I have a harder time understanding why P.O.D calls itself christian, because of some of the language in their recent albums. But I agree that Christians should deffinately watch who they are associating themselves with.

Comment by Alex — January 22, 2008 @ 2:28 pm
I think it’s a shame how Christians have really pulled out of everything from the arts to universities and even politics to some degree. These days it’s very difficult to find christian people taking part in mainstream music. Thus I aplaud the efforts of Relient K very recently, and Switchfoot a few years ago. It’s been my dream for a while to follow them in that respect, because why does music have to be the domain of unbelievers? Why do Christian musicians have to be confined to a genre(CCM)? It’s a shame really that it has to be this way. But why can’t it change?

Comment by Alex — January 22, 2008 @ 2:36 pm
As a worship leader I have recently run into an issue with a person interested in joining our church in order to be part of the worship band. Already I have a problem with the motive: this person seems driven by his desire to play music not his desire to serve God.
Anyway, he plays in a secular band during the weekend. The band plays songs from the 70s and 80s. I pretty sure they aren’t concerned about lyrical content. I believe this person is saved but not very passionate about “worship”. Although he is passionate about “music”.
He recently asked to come to our practices. I said ok, but he can’t participate until he has attended services for six months and become a member. (Church policy). Even if he meets those requirements I am dubious about having him on board.

Any thoughts?

Comment by Kathleen Edwards — January 23, 2008 @ 8:35 am
Thanks, Rich — well said, with far less rambling than my posts.

To Lisa, and also (eventually) to Kathleen:

When Paul says not to associate with wicked people in I Cor 5:9-11
This text is from the ESV Bible. Visit www.esv.org to learn about the ESV.

, note that he clearly states that he is not prohibiting Christians from associating with “immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters” who are unbelievers! Rather, he prohibits association with a professing Christian who behaves this way. Christians are able to associate with the lost, and indeed unless we hide on a mountain top, this is unavoidable. Our task is not to love the world system, but to be salt and light to the world — which requires association with people. “Separation” as I’ve often seen it applied, seems to miss the Biblical meaning, and to be far more narrow and restrictive than God’s “position” is on this topic! More on this below.

Regarding kids and loud (or poor quality) music — it is the words that make music Christian vs. secular, not the music itself. So I believe we have to initially separate words from music and judge each element individually. (Effective song writing requires talent in both areas simultaneously, of course.) Are the words true to Scripture? Is the music of “reasonable” quality? It is possible to say, “that’s a Christian song, but it stinks” because of poor musical quality. Likewise a song can have great musical quality but be devoid of truth or contain false teaching as well.

When mentoring kids, I would suggest focusing attention on both elements and encouraging progress and discernment in each. But regarding musical style — there is a wide spectrum of tastes. I don’t particularly like POD, but my daughter does listen to them occasionally. (Here I’m referring to the issue of musical style, not lyrics.) I try to choose the best quality, Christian music I can find and play it as a model for my kids.

I have a friend who plays in a secular band and also occasionally in a church setting (not my church in this instance). The secular band’s repertoire is not chosen for lyrical holiness, so to speak. So the situation seems very similar. Yet the individual certainly doesn’t fit Paul’s description in I Cor 5
This text is from the ESV Bible. Visit www.esv.org to learn about the ESV.

as a brother that should be avoided. Due to the repertoire of his band, I do certainly question his discernment. But maybe the music pastor at his church is “right” (or “okay”) to include him? He does not serve in a featured role in the church music setting. (read on)

But the flip side of this is the element of unequal yoking, in my opinion. Will his participation in the music group enhance worship in your local body? Will he convey an attitude of fleshly pride in his musicianship? Will he be a detriment to the group?

Now going right down the middle — is this a discipleship opportunity for the less mature believing musician? Might God cause spiritual growth?

Ultimately you may have to honor your church’s policy, unless you have the organizational authority to impose additional criteria for membership on the praise band / team. But can you require a certain commitment to certain spiritual disciplines? 15 minute daily Bible reading? Daily prayer time? Prayer for your church’s ministries and leaders? Do you have the opportunity to provide a 10-15 minute devotional message to the praise team as part of your practice time? Do you simply offer a time of sharing what God is doing in each other’s lives? These are things that the Holy Spirit may use in this particular person’s life to develop him into a valuable member of your team.

A few of my personal observations . . . .

Steve Inman
Kokomo, IN

Comment by Steve Inman — January 23, 2008 @ 8:21 pm
Thanks, Steve, for sharing your thoughts. I have always been an “it’s the words that matter” kind of girl, but lately I really have begun to wonder… what about words that are in and of themselves pretty good, but the lead singer of the band is literally screaming them? Is there really ever any good rationale for that? When can you legitimately say that something “sounds” evil or Satanic, based on HOW it’s sung? How far does it have to go before it’s no longer just a matter of personal preference?

Comment by lisa — January 24, 2008 @ 12:37 pm
Hi Lisa,

This is fun to consider. To me, it brings up the issues of preference, quality, audience, purpose, worldliness and maturity. Depending on where this group performs, some or all of these must be considered.

Preference:
A former member of our church, and a mature brother, once mentioned that no music styles we used were ever far enough into the hard-rock / metal genres to match his personal preferences in music. I suppose he was the 1 in 100 member for our church here in a more conservative (”backward”?) area of the mid-west, but it does show that a mature believer can enjoy screaming, “death-metal” styles of music — I’m sure many do. So although I do not, I need to give some latitude to personal taste. More on this below.

Quality:
I have a hard time agreeing that what you have described is something I could call “quality music”. Perhaps within its genre it might be. However there are some art forms that I consider to be of “low quality”. When the volume of the lead vocalist and the annoyance factor of his voice seems to be more important than the musicality of the group, or the lyrics, I “deduct style points” in my mind for quality. However, for kids in this age group, the “draw” is often a chance for self-expression and a chance to hang out with friends (band members and audience members). Often these social concerns will trump any real consideration or concern for quality as something important to weigh or consider. Oh well ….

Audience and Purpose:
In a church setting, I am of the persuasion that the musical styles should be those that the majority of the people who attend can enjoy, or at least accept. If your church has multiple services with multiple different styles, there may be a place for this in church. But it’s more important to ensure those present can say “Amen!” and that the music will facilitate genuine worship than it is to provide a venue for a certain musical style. If this band is playing at a local teen hang-out spot, then it may be just what the audience wants. (refer to “Quality” above) Also — is the purpose “entertainment” with Christian lyrics, or to facilitate worship? Again, different conclusions may be warranted depending on the purpose.

Worldliness:
This is often a phrase of condemnation that comes with circular reasoning. However, if the purpose of choosing a style of music is to mimic a style chosen by the world’s (non-Christian) musicians (to be “cool”) AND if these “worldly” styles are “cool” because they appeal to a rebellious spirit, because they foster anger, because they annoy parents, etc., then I can’t see how a Spirit-led Christian would choose to use these musical styles.

Maturity:
Ah .. note above my use of “Spirit-led Christian! Some kids can demonstrate wisdom and maturity that exceeds their physical age, due to time spent walking with God. Others are still growing. Regardless, because they are kids, many of the above points may seem unimportant and hence won’t be considered.

So what?
Your perspective and the band members’ will be different due to spiritual maturity, musical taste, wisdom, discernment, etc. Maybe you’ve encountered a horror movie or two that leads you to associate this band’s sound as “evil” while the vocalist doesn’t have this association and is unaware of how some audience members perceive the performance? He may simply be trying to mimic his favorite group. Unfortunately, I suspect you face a situation where it will be difficult to find a way to influence any change, due to difference in perspective (and the other issues I’ve mentioned). As a parent, these are often the big challenges — “gray” areas where not allowing participation is hard to justify with good, hard, Biblical evidence — yet where your discernment says “no” — at least to you. On the other hand, I suppose you could also monitor the situation, provide non-judgmental yet discerning guidance, and endure this.

From your post, I share your concerns. I would have a frank discussion with my son/daughter and list the reasons why they won’t be participating in this group. You could say you don’t want to trample on the group’s artistic freedom, so you won’t suggest they change their approach. But, with the current approach and due to your concerns, “such-and-such” is your decision for your kid(s). But as this is a gray-area parenting issue to me, I have no “right” answer — and others may reply who see things very differently. I’ve just tried to follow up with several observations for further pondering.

Comment by Steve Inman — January 26, 2008 @ 4:19 pm
I’m 16 years old, have been brought up in a christian family and gave my life to christ some years back, and this is a question that has been bugging me for quite a while now.

I’m a singer/songwriter and would like to make a career from playing in a band. I’ve written worship songs in the past, but when I’m composing anything else I feel guilty about writing anything that doesn’t directly glorify God, but then I feel restricted in terms of what a I can and can’t write.

For example I’ve heard the rock band ‘paramore’ (one of my favourite bands) say that their band members are christians, but they also say that they aren’t a christian band, and generally this shows through their lyrics.
Then there are christian bands like Sanctus Real and Switchfoot that create music that sort of glorifies God and manages to gain some secular mainstream attention at the same time.
(This is achieved by either being brilliant musicians or ‘watering down’ the lyrics, I’ll leave it to you to decide which).

Is it right as a believer to listen to music like the above, or to compose and play it with the aim of making a career out of it in the secular industry?

Comment by Sam — January 27, 2008 @ 9:44 am
Check out Sean McConnell: http://www.seanmcconnell.com

He is currently in the process of breaking into the secular industry, but he has some very explicitly Christian songs. I’m slightly biased, but I feel like he does a great job of walking the line.

Comment by Melissa — February 10, 2008 @ 3:59 pm
I found this blog after struggling with this issue that I have been having. My fiance and I are both christians and we LOVE the LORD. He is a musician but he does rap music. It is not explicit but it is in the hip hop world. His music basically talks about being yourself and not letting other place you in a box. It also addresses some social issues in the world, as well as diversity and different races coming together. The message is good, but I worry about “being” apart of the music world. There is so much sin in the music business (parties, drinking, women, money, power etc.) things that I feel is of the devil and things that can pull you away from God and being a christian and letting the world know. We all know that hollywood lifestyle is so fickled.
I just become so concerned with getting involved in that business because it sometimes seem like God is not involved in these “celebrities” lives. I just want to make sure that GOD always stays ahead in our lives and we/he does not fall victim to the wreckless lifestyle involved. I have prayed about this and I just know God will lead us in the right direction.

Comment by Kyla — March 18, 2008 @ 3:23 pm
I can tell I’ve stumbled in to the middle of this conversation, but it hovers around the very point I’ve struggled with for decades. I grew up in the 70’s loving hard rock with a passion; Deep Purple, Aerosmith, Journey, Styx, Kansas, Grand Funk Railroad, etc. The list is endless. I was really bad about knowing every note played on every instrument, but never knowing more than the chorus if I knew any lyrics at all. If I sang the song, or the backing vocals, I knew them, but would forget them in a week. But the music? I can still play it note for note.

I played clubs and arenas in the 80’s, from the lowliest biker dives to opening for national acts. No one could ever believe that a long haired hard rocker didn’t get high and have sex with everyone at the drop of a hat.

I cut off all my hair, joined the Army and now I’m a cop counting down the days till retirement. I now struggle to study music at a local university and currently play viola in two orchestras.

Since I was 15 I knew I loved music more than life and wanted to make it my life, but that’s all been on a shelf to care for a family. I retire soon and my soul yearns to finish my life playing music. Not teaching it, listening to it, selling it…PLAYING IT, again…

Finally my point, sorry. A few years ago I got all fired up about playing Christian Contemporary Music. I had just discovered its existence with Steven Curtis Chapman’s early works, Michael English “Solid as the Rock,” the list was huge and I was on fire! I’d written songs in my youth that would be perfect, I NEEDED to feel like I was doing something pleasing to God, it all seemed perfect. I was writing songs by the bucket to get through losing my son, I HAD to show God how sorry I was for being mad at HIM for my son’s death.

Then I watched in horror what was done to Michael English. Then I started studying the antics of the Christian labels. Then I saw my first Dove Awards…(last one too) I dropped it all and went right back to pounding the beat.

I’ve seen more hypocracy in religion than in any other institution I’ve ever observed mankind involve himself in, and Christian Music is absolutely the worst of the worst. And it breaks my heart. God has given me wonderful gifts, but if I make a mistake like Michael English, forget about it! If I divorce Gary and marry Vince, forget about it! I could go on and on and all of you know it.

If I were a carpenter, would I be admonished to frame only churches? If I were an electrician, would I be chastised for wiring a saloon? Why does every song I write or play have to be a hymn? Why does my music have to be a ministry? I’m not a preacher, I’m a musician.

Christian musicians whining about seculars? Who was glorified on the Doves I mentioned? The musicians, JUST LIKE THE GRAMMY’S? That “Dino” guy with the white piano and the 32 letter last name, (sorry, can’t even say it much less remember how to spell it) Who’s HE exalting with his white piano, white suit, hairsprayed head, on the 12ft pedestall with the orchestra hidden behind a curtain somewhere? C’mon? I watch acts on TBN all the time where it’s horribly obvious that it’s ALL about the SINGER, not the SONG…in complete contrast to the old secular saying…

I love God! but I also love my wife, my children…he’s been keeping one of them for me since he was 3 years old. But I also LOVE MUSIC. And shutter the thought, I love music for music’s sake to the point I can’t remember the words to a song no matter how catchy they are! I’ve been moved to tears by Paul Smith’s “Human Touch” album and by Heart’s “Alone.” I rocked my socks off to Stryper and Legend, and Bad Company and Ozzy Ozborne. I love everything I’ve ever heard by Mozart, Haydn, Hummel, Sibelius, Shostakovich, Rimsky-Korsokov, The Cars, Petra, Harvest, Pray for Rain…When I play Amazing Grace on my viola, I DON’T KNOW THE WORDS! But I have tears in my eyes! Same thing when I play poor Rich Mullins masterpiece, Our God is an Awsome God…I ONLY KNOW THE CHORUS! But having personally shaken his hand at a bible seminary concert, I cry about how he died every time I play that tune on my viola, and man, you should hear it on a viola! Or on a chainsaw flying V with double coil humbuckers!

You know, there’s some of us out here that are reached in different ways than you were, who ever you are. And some of us would LOVE to show GOD how grateful we are for the gifts he’s given us, but PEOPLE get all hung up on how the pews are angled and what color the walls should be and whether the congregation will let their women wear pants and whether or not some poor little kid who loves music really ought to be ALLOWED to play at church because maybe, just maybe he loves the music just a little too much? Sorry, gotta repeat that…?????????? ?????????

I haven’t been in a church for decades because of this behavior. And I’ve contemplated trying to release some of my own truly moving, God inspired music, but if I ever get His go ahead, I’m going to do it anonymously with no photos of me and all the orphans in Tanzania that people can see me hug, no nothing, cause I ain’t any better than Michael English, Amy Grant, or that poor little kid that just wants to play in a band at his church.

Consider this; the only reason I didn’t die on the streets like EVERYONE I GREW UP WITH was God! He did it with his left hand and his right hand. His right hand was holding a handful of wise old street cops that took the time to be the only positive force in my childhood cause all the adults I knew where drinkin’ and whorin’ around all week and dragging me to every denominational house of worship on the list every Sunday morning, Sunday night and Wednesday night. Michigan to Florida, Maryland to Kansas…all the same. Oh yeah, Vacation Bible School’s a lot of fun when your alcoholic, gambling 2nd stepdad, one of the church elders, gets arrested in the church parking lot. Those cops were what God sent to save me with his right hand. Ya know what he had in is left?

An electric guitar and a Jethro Tull album, “M.U.” the white one….

Praise the God of Abraham, Isaac and Joseph for creating my world and my life. And praise him for sending HIS son to die…and I know that pain…so that I don’t have to be judged by other Christians.

Comment by David — April 23, 2008 @ 2:23 am
Whoa David - I hear ya - God bless you bro - I’m praying all the right doors open for you

Comment by John Ostroski — April 23, 2008 @ 10:58 pm
Thank YOU John, and may God bless you as well. And thank you for the prayers. But in my own humble experience, God is ALWAYS opening doors for me. I just seem more often than not to notice it too late, or fail to walk through before it’s closed! My fault every time! But His patience with me is never ending.

Comment by David — April 24, 2008 @ 10:00 am
K. I am in love with Jesus, but to reference your last paragraph…”no other music will last anyways”

Ever hear of Mozart? Bach? Vivaldi? Pagganini? Debussy? Sor? Do I REALLY have to go on?

Hey! Watch a movie entitled “Amadeus”. Saliari is a “Christian” composer, who cannot understand why God blesses Mozart’s music, because Mozart lives in, embraces, and enjoys a life of sin, but ALSO realizes that music is bigger than himself (um, that would be GOD)

Furthermore, consider the scheduling of artists at the GOSPEL: MUSIC ASSOCIATION in Nashville every Spring (ya know…DOVE AWARDS)

Third Day plays with Robert Randolph at the WILDHORESE SALOON
Caedmon’s Call at BURBON STREET BLUES AND BOOGIE, Toby Mac @ FUEL, Caedmon’s call. (Gospelmusic.org)search the showcase schedules. Personally, I applaud ALL of them for being salt and light.

Hey…there is NO SUCH THING as the “Christian Music Industry”, only the music industry with a segment targeting the “Christian Market”

Comment by sean — April 28, 2008 @ 10:22 pm
Sean,

Thanks for stopping by and commenting. I think you misunderstood the point of my last statement, “no other kind of music is going to last anyway.” I wasn’t speaking of music with Christian lyrics or songs that we sing on Sundays. I was referring to music that’s offered up for the sole purpose of glorifying the Giver of all music. That’s not related to a specific style or genre of music.

And as far as there being a “Christian music industry, I have to disagree with you. Call it what you will, but there is a part of the music industry aimed specifically at those with evangelical Christan beliefs or produced by those with those beliefs. It’s built on and around people in the church. Similar distinctions exist in country music, classical music, rap, jazz, and other styles. The difference is that “Christian music” is defined more by the lyric than the sound or style.

But the point of this post is that Christians can make “Christian music” with a wide variety of styles and lyrics, even no lyrics at all. Our goal is clear: “And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him” ( Col. 3:17
This text is from the ESV Bible. Visit www.esv.org to learn about the ESV.

).

Comment by Bob Kauflin — April 29, 2008 @ 7:05 am
Sean & Bob,
First, God bless you and all the others posting on this thread. Sure seems to be a lot of musicians who are also Christians (or vise versa) intensely interested in this category of questions.

Sean,
You’ve let me know I’m not the only one seeing these things the way I see them. I was driven away from “Christian Music” by Christians. The ones I know personally chastised me for using the Rock genre, or having overdrive on my guitar parts because it was “Satan’s Sound” or singing like David Clayton Thomas instead of one of the Gaithers, or having a driving beat that would cause young people to sin yadda-yadda…They also predominantly preferred Country music, regardless of how “sinful” a life their favorite artists lived. I would always trip them up on Classical Music. Those who complained that it didn’t glorify God shut up when I brought up Bach’s career as a church musician/composer. Trying to get them to listen to Bach’s Mass in B minor was a waste of their time and mine. Those who had no problem with Classical from a “God perspective” would always accuse me of “making up” the story of Paganini’s violin being rumored to have been made of wood from his father’s coffin and varnished with his mother’s blood because people of his day believed he’d sold his soul to Satan because “no one can play THAT good any other way.” Modern science now believes he had either Ehlers-Danlos or Marfan’s syndrome, either of which could explain his amazing speed and flexibility. These are just a few examples of the hang-ups I’ve encountered with the Christians that I know.

Sean and/or Bob,
As far as the “Christian Music Industry” goes, in my humble opinion, its position in the industry hierarchy isn’t as much of a problem, for me anyway, as the countless incidents of “secular” behavior of those who run that “industry” or “section thereof.” I’ve read countless books and articles on this topic; many were Christian publications that were pointing this out for a variety of reasons. I’ve read interviews of national artists who’ve gone from Secular to Christian, or the other direction, who’ve stated there were more “sharks in the water” in the Christian side of the industry than the Secular side. Some Christian artists have even started their own labels because of this very problem.

Bob,
I just kind of stumbled on to this thread and I already don’t remember how. So forgive my ignorance of your identity or the nature and scope of your work. But it does seem to me that you have a passion for this category of problematic questions, and God bless your efforts to address them. I had no idea that so many other musicians struggle with these issues in so many different ways.

You touch on so many angles of these problems that I barely know where to begin, so I’ll start with your response to Sean, specifically the final paragraph. For me, this is the summation of all the other problems in this category. “Christians can make “Christian music…” is one of the aspects of this dilemma that I addressed in a previous posting above. And you hammer that same nail again with your quote from Col. 3:17
This text is from the ESV Bible. Visit www.esv.org to learn about the ESV.

. If I follow this as a logical progression, then I as a carpenter can only build churches. I as an electrician can only wire temples. I as a bricklayer can only wall synagogues. If I do otherwise, then I presumably had better be yelling “Praise The Lord” with every hammer stroke, “Halleluiah” with every feed of wiring and “Amen!” with every mortared brick if the efforts are performed on anything less than a Holy Structure. No one I know seems to have a problem letting those in these trades and others out of this box by simply rationalizing that it’s the “spirit of the phrase” not the “exact wording” that matters. Those in these and every other trade are simply admonished to be “a light” to others in those trades regardless of “what earthly project” they’re working on. Why then is this rationale so hard to apply to music and musicians? As I posed in my previous posting, “Why does every song I write or play have to be a hymn? Why does my music have to be a ministry? I’m not a preacher, I’m a musician.”

Now, I understand the point with regards to lyrics as far as “glorifying acts or lifestyles” that fly in the face of all that a Christian is supposed to hold dear. I think that’s a no brainer, but I call your attention to those Christians I mentioned before with regards to their stance on, just an example, Country music and their favorite artists. (Bluegrass music too, by the way…) They turn a blind eye and a deaf ear when THESE artists sing songs that glorify, justify or excuse the ungodly and live lifestyles just as ungodly as those that they sing about. But GOD FORBID if a “Christian” artist stumbles even a little bit. GOD FORBID if a “Christian” artist uses the Rock genre, distorted guitars, raspy or soulful vocals, driving rhythms, again, yadda-yadda!

To any who will listen?
Without going back and reading all the previous posts, I think it was Steve Inman of Kokomo that made some references to personal tastes with regards to styles. Is it possible, in the minds of Christians, for me to write, sing or play anything, and have it be OK, if it’s not what they personally are used to accepting; regardless of lyrical content? If I manage to hit whatever musical style a given Christian will accept as being OK, is it possible for my song to be acceptable if it’s a love song, a life experience song etc, or does it absolutely HAVE TO BE A HYMN? If I’ve decided to make music, why do I have to have a “musical ministry?” I am NOT a preacher. That is NOT my gift. I AM a musician. Is it even remotely possible in the minds of Christians for me to mix songs of praise with love songs, or accountings of life experience, or simply write and perform instrumental music without red-flagging it as Christian, Secular or anything other than Music?

Forgive my rambling, but this is one of the most important issues in my life. Sean mentioned Mozart and Saliari; I say I am both of them. God has both gifted me with the musical abilities that evoke jealousy from my peers, and bestowed upon me the ability to feel and love the music of others to the depths of my very soul; and to both these ends, completely regardless of musical genre or religious lyrical content.

May He lead me in this passion that I have to show HIM how much I treasure these gifts.

Comment by David — April 29, 2008 @ 11:42 am

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