Sean,
You’ve let me know I’m not the only one seeing these things the way I see them. I was driven away from “Christian Music” by Christians. The ones I know personally chastised me for using the Rock genre, or having overdrive on my guitar parts because it was “Satan’s Sound” or singing like David Clayton Thomas instead of one of the Gaithers, or having a driving beat that would cause young people to sin yadda-yadda…They also predominantly preferred Country music, regardless of how “sinful” a life their favorite artists lived. I would always trip them up on Classical Music. Those who complained that it didn’t glorify God shut up when I brought up Bach’s career as a church musician/composer. Trying to get them to listen to Bach’s Mass in B minor was a waste of their time and mine. Those who had no problem with Classical from a “God perspective” would always accuse me of “making up” the story of Paganini’s violin being rumored to have been made of wood from his father’s coffin and varnished with his mother’s blood because people of his day believed he’d sold his soul to Satan because “no one can play THAT good any other way.” Modern science now believes he had either Ehlers-Danlos or Marfan’s syndrome, either of which could explain his amazing speed and flexibility. These are just a few examples of the hang-ups I’ve encountered with the Christians that I know.

Sean and/or Bob,
As far as the “Christian Music Industry” goes, in my humble opinion, its position in the industry hierarchy isn’t as much of a problem, for me anyway, as the countless incidents of “secular” behavior of those who run that “industry” or “section thereof.” I’ve read countless books and articles on this topic; many were Christian publications that were pointing this out for a variety of reasons. I’ve read interviews of national artists who’ve gone from Secular to Christian, or the other direction, who’ve stated there were more “sharks in the water” in the Christian side of the industry than the Secular side. Some Christian artists have even started their own labels because of this very problem.

Bob,
I just kind of stumbled on to this thread and I already don’t remember how. So forgive my ignorance of your identity or the nature and scope of your work. But it does seem to me that you have a passion for this category of problematic questions, and God bless your efforts to address them. I had no idea that so many other musicians struggle with these issues in so many different ways.

You touch on so many angles of these problems that I barely know where to begin, so I’ll start with your response to Sean, specifically the final paragraph. For me, this is the summation of all the other problems in this category. “Christians can make “Christian music…” is one of the aspects of this dilemma that I addressed in a previous posting above. And you hammer that same nail again with your quote from Col. 3:17Colossians 3:17
[17]And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything
in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the
Father through him. (ESV)

. If I follow this as a logical progression, then I as a carpenter can only build churches. I as an electrician can only wire temples. I as a bricklayer can only wall synagogues. If I do otherwise, then I presumably had better be yelling “Praise The Lord” with every hammer stroke, “Halleluiah” with every feed of wiring and “Amen!” with every mortared brick if the efforts are performed on anything less than a Holy Structure. No one I know seems to have a problem letting those in these trades and others out of this box by simply rationalizing that it’s the “spirit of the phrase” not the “exact wording” that matters. Those in these and every other trade are simply admonished to be “a light” to others in those trades regardless of “what earthly project” they’re working on. Why then is this rationale so hard to apply to music and musicians? As I posed in my previous posting, “Why does every song I write or play have to be a hymn? Why does my music have to be a ministry? I’m not a preacher, I’m a musician.”

Now, I understand the point with regards to lyrics as far as “glorifying acts or lifestyles” that fly in the face of all that a Christian is supposed to hold dear. I think that’s a no brainer, but I call your attention to those Christians I mentioned before with regards to their stance on, just an example, Country music and their favorite artists. (Bluegrass music too, by the way…) They turn a blind eye and a deaf ear when THESE artists sing songs that glorify, justify or excuse the ungodly and live lifestyles just as ungodly as those that they sing about. But GOD FORBID if a “Christian” artist stumbles even a little bit. GOD FORBID if a “Christian” artist uses the Rock genre, distorted guitars, raspy or soulful vocals, driving rhythms, again, yadda-yadda!

To any who will listen?
Without going back and reading all the previous posts, I think it was Steve Inman of Kokomo that made some references to personal tastes with regards to styles. Is it possible, in the minds of Christians, for me to write, sing or play anything, and have it be OK, if it’s not what they personally are used to accepting; regardless of lyrical content? If I manage to hit whatever musical style a given Christian will accept as being OK, is it possible for my song to be acceptable if it’s a love song, a life experience song etc, or does it absolutely HAVE TO BE A HYMN? If I’ve decided to make music, why do I have to have a “musical ministry?” I am NOT a preacher. That is NOT my gift. I AM a musician. Is it even remotely possible in the minds of Christians for me to mix songs of praise with love songs, or accountings of life experience, or simply write and perform instrumental music without red-flagging it as Christian, Secular or anything other than Music?

Forgive my rambling, but this is one of the most important issues in my life. Sean mentioned Mozart and Saliari; I say I am both of them. God has both gifted me with the musical abilities that evoke jealousy from my peers, and bestowed upon me the ability to feel and love the music of others to the depths of my very soul; and to both these ends, completely regardless of musical genre or religious lyrical content.

May He lead me in this passion that I have to show HIM how much I treasure these gifts.

Thanks for stopping by and commenting. I think you misunderstood the point of my last statement, “no other kind of music is going to last anyway.” I wasn’t speaking of music with Christian lyrics or songs that we sing on Sundays. I was referring to music that’s offered up for the sole purpose of glorifying the Giver of all music. That’s not related to a specific style or genre of music.

And as far as there being a “Christian music industry, I have to disagree with you. Call it what you will, but there is a part of the music industry aimed specifically at those with evangelical Christan beliefs or produced by those with those beliefs. It’s built on and around people in the church. Similar distinctions exist in country music, classical music, rap, jazz, and other styles. The difference is that “Christian music” is defined more by the lyric than the sound or style.

But the point of this post is that Christians can make “Christian music” with a wide variety of styles and lyrics, even no lyrics at all. Our goal is clear: “And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him” ( Col. 3:17Colossians 3:17
[17]And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything
in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the
Father through him. (ESV)

).

Ever hear of Mozart? Bach? Vivaldi? Pagganini? Debussy? Sor? Do I REALLY have to go on?

Hey! Watch a movie entitled “Amadeus”. Saliari is a “Christian” composer, who cannot understand why God blesses Mozart’s music, because Mozart lives in, embraces, and enjoys a life of sin, but ALSO realizes that music is bigger than himself (um, that would be GOD)

Furthermore, consider the scheduling of artists at the GOSPEL: MUSIC ASSOCIATION in Nashville every Spring (ya know…DOVE AWARDS)

Third Day plays with Robert Randolph at the WILDHORESE SALOON
Caedmon’s Call at BURBON STREET BLUES AND BOOGIE, Toby Mac @ FUEL, Caedmon’s call. (Gospelmusic.org)search the showcase schedules. Personally, I applaud ALL of them for being salt and light.

Hey…there is NO SUCH THING as the “Christian Music Industry”, only the music industry with a segment targeting the “Christian Market”

I played clubs and arenas in the 80’s, from the lowliest biker dives to opening for national acts. No one could ever believe that a long haired hard rocker didn’t get high and have sex with everyone at the drop of a hat.

I cut off all my hair, joined the Army and now I’m a cop counting down the days till retirement. I now struggle to study music at a local university and currently play viola in two orchestras.

Since I was 15 I knew I loved music more than life and wanted to make it my life, but that’s all been on a shelf to care for a family. I retire soon and my soul yearns to finish my life playing music. Not teaching it, listening to it, selling it…PLAYING IT, again…

Finally my point, sorry. A few years ago I got all fired up about playing Christian Contemporary Music. I had just discovered its existence with Steven Curtis Chapman’s early works, Michael English “Solid as the Rock,” the list was huge and I was on fire! I’d written songs in my youth that would be perfect, I NEEDED to feel like I was doing something pleasing to God, it all seemed perfect. I was writing songs by the bucket to get through losing my son, I HAD to show God how sorry I was for being mad at HIM for my son’s death.

Then I watched in horror what was done to Michael English. Then I started studying the antics of the Christian labels. Then I saw my first Dove Awards…(last one too) I dropped it all and went right back to pounding the beat.

I’ve seen more hypocracy in religion than in any other institution I’ve ever observed mankind involve himself in, and Christian Music is absolutely the worst of the worst. And it breaks my heart. God has given me wonderful gifts, but if I make a mistake like Michael English, forget about it! If I divorce Gary and marry Vince, forget about it! I could go on and on and all of you know it.

If I were a carpenter, would I be admonished to frame only churches? If I were an electrician, would I be chastised for wiring a saloon? Why does every song I write or play have to be a hymn? Why does my music have to be a ministry? I’m not a preacher, I’m a musician.

Christian musicians whining about seculars? Who was glorified on the Doves I mentioned? The musicians, JUST LIKE THE GRAMMY’S? That “Dino” guy with the white piano and the 32 letter last name, (sorry, can’t even say it much less remember how to spell it) Who’s HE exalting with his white piano, white suit, hairsprayed head, on the 12ft pedestall with the orchestra hidden behind a curtain somewhere? C’mon? I watch acts on TBN all the time where it’s horribly obvious that it’s ALL about the SINGER, not the SONG…in complete contrast to the old secular saying…

I love God! but I also love my wife, my children…he’s been keeping one of them for me since he was 3 years old. But I also LOVE MUSIC. And shutter the thought, I love music for music’s sake to the point I can’t remember the words to a song no matter how catchy they are! I’ve been moved to tears by Paul Smith’s “Human Touch” album and by Heart’s “Alone.” I rocked my socks off to Stryper and Legend, and Bad Company and Ozzy Ozborne. I love everything I’ve ever heard by Mozart, Haydn, Hummel, Sibelius, Shostakovich, Rimsky-Korsokov, The Cars, Petra, Harvest, Pray for Rain…When I play Amazing Grace on my viola, I DON’T KNOW THE WORDS! But I have tears in my eyes! Same thing when I play poor Rich Mullins masterpiece, Our God is an Awsome God…I ONLY KNOW THE CHORUS! But having personally shaken his hand at a bible seminary concert, I cry about how he died every time I play that tune on my viola, and man, you should hear it on a viola! Or on a chainsaw flying V with double coil humbuckers!

You know, there’s some of us out here that are reached in different ways than you were, who ever you are. And some of us would LOVE to show GOD how grateful we are for the gifts he’s given us, but PEOPLE get all hung up on how the pews are angled and what color the walls should be and whether the congregation will let their women wear pants and whether or not some poor little kid who loves music really ought to be ALLOWED to play at church because maybe, just maybe he loves the music just a little too much? Sorry, gotta repeat that…?????????? ?????????

I haven’t been in a church for decades because of this behavior. And I’ve contemplated trying to release some of my own truly moving, God inspired music, but if I ever get His go ahead, I’m going to do it anonymously with no photos of me and all the orphans in Tanzania that people can see me hug, no nothing, cause I ain’t any better than Michael English, Amy Grant, or that poor little kid that just wants to play in a band at his church.

Consider this; the only reason I didn’t die on the streets like EVERYONE I GREW UP WITH was God! He did it with his left hand and his right hand. His right hand was holding a handful of wise old street cops that took the time to be the only positive force in my childhood cause all the adults I knew where drinkin’ and whorin’ around all week and dragging me to every denominational house of worship on the list every Sunday morning, Sunday night and Wednesday night. Michigan to Florida, Maryland to Kansas…all the same. Oh yeah, Vacation Bible School’s a lot of fun when your alcoholic, gambling 2nd stepdad, one of the church elders, gets arrested in the church parking lot. Those cops were what God sent to save me with his right hand. Ya know what he had in is left?

An electric guitar and a Jethro Tull album, “M.U.” the white one….

Praise the God of Abraham, Isaac and Joseph for creating my world and my life. And praise him for sending HIS son to die…and I know that pain…so that I don’t have to be judged by other Christians.

He is currently in the process of breaking into the secular industry, but he has some very explicitly Christian songs. I’m slightly biased, but I feel like he does a great job of walking the line.

I’m a singer/songwriter and would like to make a career from playing in a band. I’ve written worship songs in the past, but when I’m composing anything else I feel guilty about writing anything that doesn’t directly glorify God, but then I feel restricted in terms of what a I can and can’t write.

For example I’ve heard the rock band ‘paramore’ (one of my favourite bands) say that their band members are christians, but they also say that they aren’t a christian band, and generally this shows through their lyrics.
Then there are christian bands like Sanctus Real and Switchfoot that create music that sort of glorifies God and manages to gain some secular mainstream attention at the same time.
(This is achieved by either being brilliant musicians or ‘watering down’ the lyrics, I’ll leave it to you to decide which).

Is it right as a believer to listen to music like the above, or to compose and play it with the aim of making a career out of it in the secular industry?

This is fun to consider. To me, it brings up the issues of preference, quality, audience, purpose, worldliness and maturity. Depending on where this group performs, some or all of these must be considered.

Preference:
A former member of our church, and a mature brother, once mentioned that no music styles we used were ever far enough into the hard-rock / metal genres to match his personal preferences in music. I suppose he was the 1 in 100 member for our church here in a more conservative (”backward”?) area of the mid-west, but it does show that a mature believer can enjoy screaming, “death-metal” styles of music — I’m sure many do. So although I do not, I need to give some latitude to personal taste. More on this below.

Quality:
I have a hard time agreeing that what you have described is something I could call “quality music”. Perhaps within its genre it might be. However there are some art forms that I consider to be of “low quality”. When the volume of the lead vocalist and the annoyance factor of his voice seems to be more important than the musicality of the group, or the lyrics, I “deduct style points” in my mind for quality. However, for kids in this age group, the “draw” is often a chance for self-expression and a chance to hang out with friends (band members and audience members). Often these social concerns will trump any real consideration or concern for quality as something important to weigh or consider. Oh well ….

Audience and Purpose:
In a church setting, I am of the persuasion that the musical styles should be those that the majority of the people who attend can enjoy, or at least accept. If your church has multiple services with multiple different styles, there may be a place for this in church. But it’s more important to ensure those present can say “Amen!” and that the music will facilitate genuine worship than it is to provide a venue for a certain musical style. If this band is playing at a local teen hang-out spot, then it may be just what the audience wants. (refer to “Quality” above) Also — is the purpose “entertainment” with Christian lyrics, or to facilitate worship? Again, different conclusions may be warranted depending on the purpose.

Worldliness:
This is often a phrase of condemnation that comes with circular reasoning. However, if the purpose of choosing a style of music is to mimic a style chosen by the world’s (non-Christian) musicians (to be “cool”) AND if these “worldly” styles are “cool” because they appeal to a rebellious spirit, because they foster anger, because they annoy parents, etc., then I can’t see how a Spirit-led Christian would choose to use these musical styles.

Maturity:
Ah .. note above my use of “Spirit-led Christian! Some kids can demonstrate wisdom and maturity that exceeds their physical age, due to time spent walking with God. Others are still growing. Regardless, because they are kids, many of the above points may seem unimportant and hence won’t be considered.

So what?
Your perspective and the band members’ will be different due to spiritual maturity, musical taste, wisdom, discernment, etc. Maybe you’ve encountered a horror movie or two that leads you to associate this band’s sound as “evil” while the vocalist doesn’t have this association and is unaware of how some audience members perceive the performance? He may simply be trying to mimic his favorite group. Unfortunately, I suspect you face a situation where it will be difficult to find a way to influence any change, due to difference in perspective (and the other issues I’ve mentioned). As a parent, these are often the big challenges — “gray” areas where not allowing participation is hard to justify with good, hard, Biblical evidence — yet where your discernment says “no” — at least to you. On the other hand, I suppose you could also monitor the situation, provide non-judgmental yet discerning guidance, and endure this.

From your post, I share your concerns. I would have a frank discussion with my son/daughter and list the reasons why they won’t be participating in this group. You could say you don’t want to trample on the group’s artistic freedom, so you won’t suggest they change their approach. But, with the current approach and due to your concerns, “such-and-such” is your decision for your kid(s). But as this is a gray-area parenting issue to me, I have no “right” answer — and others may reply who see things very differently. I’ve just tried to follow up with several observations for further pondering.