Comments on: Sin and Sunday Morning http://www.worshipmatters.com/2007/10/sin-and-sunday-morning/ Resources for Leading Worship from Bob Kauflin Fri, 10 Oct 2008 19:39:36 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: Cindy Mendoa http://www.worshipmatters.com/2007/10/sin-and-sunday-morning/#comment-7185 Cindy Mendoa Wed, 09 Apr 2008 22:50:04 +0000 http://www.worshipmatters.com/2007/10/sin-and-sunday-morning/#comment-7185 I honstly think that we need not to worry about Joel Osteen...if he is doing wrong in anyway the Lord our God will deal with it at his timing. It is not our job to be judging others. Whether one likes it or not Osteen is part of the body of Christ and we need to edify each other and not bring down the body of Christ.Not only that, God is using Osteen to reach millions of people who do not know about Christ and God is prospering him even if one thinks his messages are "watered-down, no-fear of the Lord." God is the one who give promotion...So i am sure all christians agree God is control...right or wrong. If anything i praise the Lord for those messages because maybe someone who feels sooooo unworthy of receiving forgiveness from the Lord might hear on of the uplifting messages and that message may minister that persons heart and may decide to accept the Lord. Come on...we need to be spiritually mature. Let go and let God. God is in control I honstly think that we need not to worry about Joel Osteen…if he is doing wrong in anyway the Lord our God will deal with it at his timing. It is not our job to be judging others. Whether one likes it or not Osteen is part of the body of Christ and we need to edify each other and not bring down the body of Christ.Not only that, God is using Osteen to reach millions of people who do not know about Christ and God is prospering him even if one thinks his messages are “watered-down, no-fear of the Lord.” God is the one who give promotion…So i am sure all christians agree God is control…right or wrong. If anything i praise the Lord for those messages because maybe someone who feels sooooo unworthy of receiving forgiveness from the Lord might hear on of the uplifting messages and that message may minister that persons heart and may decide to accept the Lord. Come on…we need to be spiritually mature. Let go and let God. God is in control

]]> By: Roy http://www.worshipmatters.com/2007/10/sin-and-sunday-morning/#comment-2633 Roy Fri, 02 Nov 2007 16:20:48 +0000 http://www.worshipmatters.com/2007/10/sin-and-sunday-morning/#comment-2633 Good post. I objected to Osteen before the 60 Minutes interview but once he took the interview, I knew others would get to see the problems with Osteen's ministry. While I am sure that many godly people are involved with Lakewood and Osteen, I agree with you that many are deceived. How dangerous is the love of money. Good post. I objected to Osteen before the 60 Minutes interview but once he took the interview, I knew others would get to see the problems with Osteen’s ministry. While I am sure that many godly people are involved with Lakewood and Osteen, I agree with you that many are deceived. How dangerous is the love of money.

]]> By: west http://www.worshipmatters.com/2007/10/sin-and-sunday-morning/#comment-2123 west Wed, 17 Oct 2007 17:51:06 +0000 http://www.worshipmatters.com/2007/10/sin-and-sunday-morning/#comment-2123 Along with Ryan, I've often wondered about the role of worship music at Lakewood too. One thing I did recently is to register at their website (www.lakewood.cc) so I could listen to the music portions of their service. Once you get past the intro about how I can be a better me, they go right into the music set. I don't have any answers to the theological/philosophical questions, but I do think that Israel Houghton and Cindy Cruse-Ratcliff are gifted musicians and arrangers that we can learn a lot from. Peace. Along with Ryan, I’ve often wondered about the role of worship music at Lakewood too. One thing I did recently is to register at their website (www.lakewood.cc) so I could listen to the music portions of their service. Once you get past the intro about how I can be a better me, they go right into the music set. I don’t have any answers to the theological/philosophical questions, but I do think that Israel Houghton and Cindy Cruse-Ratcliff are gifted musicians and arrangers that we can learn a lot from.

Peace.

]]> By: Ken http://www.worshipmatters.com/2007/10/sin-and-sunday-morning/#comment-2122 Ken Wed, 17 Oct 2007 16:02:40 +0000 http://www.worshipmatters.com/2007/10/sin-and-sunday-morning/#comment-2122 Yesterday I read some of the introduction to <em>Repentance: The First Word of the Gospel</em> by Richard Owen Roberts. He had an appropriate word about positive thinking: "...repentance has been neglected because of a grievously distorted focus upon the positive. There is a widespread notion that Christianity must always be stated in positive terms. Some have gone so far as to say, 'If you can't say something positive, don't say anything at all.' Faith is perceived as positive, whereas repentance, by such reckoning, obviously falls into the category of negative. But how would you like to take your automobile to a mechanic who always had a positive outlook and could never bring himself to find anything wrong with your vehicle? Or could you imagine retaining as your medical doctor a man who never finds anything wrong with you but always treats you as if you are completely healthy?" (pp17-18). Yesterday I read some of the introduction to Repentance: The First Word of the Gospel by Richard Owen Roberts. He had an appropriate word about positive thinking:

“…repentance has been neglected because of a grievously distorted focus upon the positive. There is a widespread notion that Christianity must always be stated in positive terms. Some have gone so far as to say, ‘If you can’t say something positive, don’t say anything at all.’ Faith is perceived as positive, whereas repentance, by such reckoning, obviously falls into the category of negative. But how would you like to take your automobile to a mechanic who always had a positive outlook and could never bring himself to find anything wrong with your vehicle? Or could you imagine retaining as your medical doctor a man who never finds anything wrong with you but always treats you as if you are completely healthy?” (pp17-18).

]]> By: Dashboard | Dan McCurley » Blog Archive » Stick to the real gospel http://www.worshipmatters.com/2007/10/sin-and-sunday-morning/#comment-2109 Dashboard | Dan McCurley » Blog Archive » Stick to the real gospel Wed, 17 Oct 2007 07:45:57 +0000 http://www.worshipmatters.com/2007/10/sin-and-sunday-morning/#comment-2109 [...] a worship leader, I was moved by what Bob Kauflin had to say about Osteen’s misconceptions and the importance of drawing attention to sin in our [...] [...] a worship leader, I was moved by what Bob Kauflin had to say about Osteen’s misconceptions and the importance of drawing attention to sin in our [...]

]]> By: Josh http://www.worshipmatters.com/2007/10/sin-and-sunday-morning/#comment-2106 Josh Wed, 17 Oct 2007 02:17:04 +0000 http://www.worshipmatters.com/2007/10/sin-and-sunday-morning/#comment-2106 Bob, Thanks for posting this. I watched this interview Sunday and was surprised that so many Christians tune in to him each week even though his message leaves out the glory and wonder of Christ. For me, that is what I come to church each week to see and hear. I NEED to hear the good news that Christ is my substitute and peace. I love those verses you mentioned in Colossians 3:3-4. If Christ is our new life and we will one day appear with him in glory, why should we not celebrate and rejoice in that each and every time we gather? It almost seems like we deny Him if we intentionally withold this truth from others and give them a cheap substitute. Bob,

Thanks for posting this. I watched this interview Sunday and was surprised that so many Christians tune in to him each week even though his message leaves out the glory and wonder of Christ. For me, that is what I come to church each week to see and hear. I NEED to hear the good news that Christ is my substitute and peace. I love those verses you mentioned in Colossians 3:3-4

. If Christ is our new life and we will one day appear with him in glory, why should we not celebrate and rejoice in that each and every time we gather? It almost seems like we deny Him if we intentionally withold this truth from others and give them a cheap substitute.

]]> By: Tommy http://www.worshipmatters.com/2007/10/sin-and-sunday-morning/#comment-2103 Tommy Wed, 17 Oct 2007 00:55:10 +0000 http://www.worshipmatters.com/2007/10/sin-and-sunday-morning/#comment-2103 For those interested, Michael Horton, with whom Byron Pitts conducted the counter-point interview for the Joel Osteen feature, has posted some excellent articles at www.wscal.edu For those interested, Michael Horton, with whom Byron Pitts conducted the counter-point interview for the Joel Osteen feature, has posted some excellent articles at http://www.wscal.edu

]]> By: Paul Martin http://www.worshipmatters.com/2007/10/sin-and-sunday-morning/#comment-2101 Paul Martin Wed, 17 Oct 2007 00:46:40 +0000 http://www.worshipmatters.com/2007/10/sin-and-sunday-morning/#comment-2101 Bob, Thanks for taking an obvious problem and turning it around to show us how easily we can dress the same error in different clothes. May God in His grace keep us centered on that cross!! Bob,
Thanks for taking an obvious problem and turning it around to show us how easily we can dress the same error in different clothes.
May God in His grace keep us centered on that cross!!

]]> By: Joseph http://www.worshipmatters.com/2007/10/sin-and-sunday-morning/#comment-2097 Joseph Tue, 16 Oct 2007 22:34:06 +0000 http://www.worshipmatters.com/2007/10/sin-and-sunday-morning/#comment-2097 Thanks Bob, for your firm stance upon the necessity and power of the cross of Christ. Apart from the cross and all that it proclaims to us about our sin and our Lord there can be no salvation. I have been greatly distressed by the many people that run after "every wind of doctrine", especially Joel Osteen and his motivational messages. What Paul said in 1 Corinthians and what Peter declared in 1 Peter stand true to this day - the gospel is foolishness, offensive, and a stumbling block to the world. It is much easier to pursue a message that makes us feel good about ourselves. Your post was very sobering - I pray that we never teach, lead, or preach anything that hides or neglects the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ. Thanks Bob, for your firm stance upon the necessity and power of the cross of Christ. Apart from the cross and all that it proclaims to us about our sin and our Lord there can be no salvation. I have been greatly distressed by the many people that run after “every wind of doctrine”, especially Joel Osteen and his motivational messages. What Paul said in 1 Corinthians and what Peter declared in 1 Peter stand true to this day - the gospel is foolishness, offensive, and a stumbling block to the world. It is much easier to pursue a message that makes us feel good about ourselves. Your post was very sobering - I pray that we never teach, lead, or preach anything that hides or neglects the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ.

]]> By: Ryan F. http://www.worshipmatters.com/2007/10/sin-and-sunday-morning/#comment-2096 Ryan F. Tue, 16 Oct 2007 22:15:52 +0000 http://www.worshipmatters.com/2007/10/sin-and-sunday-morning/#comment-2096 Bob, This brings up a serious question regarding musical worship at a "church" such as Osteen's. During the interview, there was a snippet of video in which the song "Here I Am to Worship" was being sung. I have heard few negative critiques of this song (namely, it's focus on self in the chorus), but for the most part it is a simple song filled with God-action that tells the story of Christ's incarnation and redemption, climaxing in the truth proclaimed in the bridge: "I'll never know how much it cost to see my sin upon that cross." My question is: What is the higher meaning or purpose of singing songs such as this in a context like Lakeview Church, where the eternally separating disease of sin is not addressed? Do people have any idea what they are singing? My guess is they skip the bridge. Nonetheless, it seems to me a grievous insult to misuse worship music in this way. God says he exalts above all things His Name and His Word (Ps. 138). Shouldn't it be our goal as worship leaders to use our music to exalt His Name and His Word? (Somewhat rhetorical.) Bob,

This brings up a serious question regarding musical worship at a “church” such as Osteen’s.

During the interview, there was a snippet of video in which the song “Here I Am to Worship” was being sung. I have heard few negative critiques of this song (namely, it’s focus on self in the chorus), but for the most part it is a simple song filled with God-action that tells the story of Christ’s incarnation and redemption, climaxing in the truth proclaimed in the bridge: “I’ll never know how much it cost to see my sin upon that cross.”

My question is: What is the higher meaning or purpose of singing songs such as this in a context like Lakeview Church, where the eternally separating disease of sin is not addressed? Do people have any idea what they are singing? My guess is they skip the bridge. Nonetheless, it seems to me a grievous insult to misuse worship music in this way. God says he exalts above all things His Name and His Word ( Ps. 138

). Shouldn’t it be our goal as worship leaders to use our music to exalt His Name and His Word? (Somewhat rhetorical.)

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