I just stumbled across this website and I was so hurt to read your comments on The Prayer on Paul Baloche’s CD. In fact, the only reason why I was even directed to this your site was because I was searching to find out who in fact was the one praying the Prayer. I’ve never listened to Paul’s album, I stream Christian music and the station I listen to consistently plays The Prayer and the song Hallelujah to our King which it leads into it.

Like Jessica, an earlier commenter, I absolutely love the Prayer - even more so than the song it leads into. In my opinion, there is a strong annointing and presence of God on that prayer. Every time I hear it I feel the presence of God filling the place where I am. I believe that for you to say that it’s “unfortunate” that the Prayer is included on the CD is definitely an affront to the man who was praying, Paul Baloche and more importantly to God, the One for whom the prayer was intended in the first place.

The comment posted by “Pastor Z” was written far more eloquently and diplomatically than I ever could. I know we are all entitled to our own opinions and interpretations, but it just hurt me to the core even to read how Henry, another commenter said that this needed to be edited and reiterated that it did contain questionable theology and we needed to see how it could be avoided in the future. Should we indeed be editing one’s heartfelt cry and passion to the God who we are encouraged to “pour out our hearts towards him?” ( Psalm 62:8Psalm 62:8
[8]Trust in him at all times, O people;
pour out your heart before him;
God is a refuge for us. Selah

). I think not.

We need the presence of God in our “nice, pretty, well organized church.” I just left a church where I attended all of my life - born, raised, baptized, led worship, was pastoral assistant, youth director… you name it - I did it - because it turned into a “nice, pretty, well organized church” where the presence of God was seemingly squashed like a mosquito to a fly swatter. The Prayer is what we all need to be praying - complete with its passion, intensity and heartfelt cries at the end. It’s only my humble opinion but I think it is prayers like these which touch the heart and throne room of God.

first, the man praying says “we speak THE open skies” (not “TO the open skies”). i believe this is a reference to the fact that God “opened the skies” after Elijah’s prayer and let the rain fall again after three and a half years of “closed skies” leading to drought and famine. could it be that he is imploring God to bring a spiritual rain?

for freedom of emotions and of the dance, i believe he is trying to provoke the freedom King David experienced as the ark entered Jerusalem. after all 2 corinthians 3:17 tells us where the spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

i do not share your question of whose fire would be found in our bosoms. I’m not sure i understand how asking the God who consumes the sacrifice (with fire) to come down so that the very same fire would be found in us leads to a question of the origin of the fire. surely it is our Father’s fire he is praying for, is it not?

finally, i agree with whomever it is saying this prayer in asking that we are not “just a nice, pretty, well organized church.” i am sure that you are painfully aware of places and people that are pretty and well organized, yet spiritually starved and devoid of any relationship with God. to me, this is the largest statement of the prayer. the story of Elijah organizing the altar has often been used as an illustration to insist how important organization of the body is, yet many times the point of the story, the fact that God brought fire against all odds, is often left out or minimized. perhaps this man is reminding us of what God did that day outside of having a “just a nice, pretty, well organized” altar.

Thank you for your time. Blessings upon you, your home, and your ministry!

Thanks for the clarification. You’re absolutely right, and I don’t think the gentleman who prayed was saying that an organized church is bad. BTW, I didn’t intentionally leave the “just” out of my comment, just forgot it. He also said, “We don’t ‘just’ want to sing songs, we want to lift up God,” which is a great thing to pray.

Just for the sake of clarity, the prayer after “Only True God”, he actually says, “not *just* to be a pretty, well organized church…”. In your comment you left out the *just* and I think that completely changes the context and intention of that section of prayer. I don’t believe he was devaluing organization, but saying that organization has no power or purpose without God’s presence.

-Kyle

Thanks for your thoughts and your honesty. You hit on some important distinctions.

The gaining of knowledge has one end - to magnify the glory of Jesus Christ. Where discernment leads me to be critical and quick to judge, when it makes me think I’m closer to God because of it, when I start to think of it as some kind of work that merits God’s special favor, then I’m doing more than discerning - I’m being proud.

If singing songs with sound theology leads me to sinful arrogant behavior, I’m deceived. That doesn’t mean the theology is wrong. It just shows that my motivations are sinful. But we shouldn’t respond by tossing out biblical truth. We should apply it.

You mentioned the worship experiences that oriented you towards God. God, in his mercy, uses all kinds of experiences, events, and happenings to draw us to himself and make us more aware of what he’s done for us in Christ. I should know. But experiences aren’t what God calls us to pursue. He calls us to grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ ( 2 Pet. 3:182 Peter 3:18
[18]But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and
Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to
the day of eternity. Amen. (ESV)

). Without losing a fervent zeal for his grace and presence, we’re to “let the word of Christ dwell in us richly” ( Col. 3:16Colossians 3:16
[16]Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching
and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing psalms
and hymns and spiritual songs, with thankfulness in your
hearts to God. (ESV)

). That means singing songs that are biblically faithful and that help us grow in our love for and obedience to God’s Word.

You asked if the Savior would love us more or less because “my songs and the songs I sang were not of a particular variety or style or (dare I say it) brand of theology?” No. But that’s not why we sing - so that Jesus will love us more. We sing so WE can love HIM more. And to do that, we need to sing songs that help us know him for who he really is, songs that help us remember what he’s done and what it means, and songs that help us teach and admonish one another.

God forbid that singing songs that more accurately reflect God’s Word should lead to pride in our hearts. But that’s why the Gospel is so precious. Even as we grow in our understanding of God’s truth, Jesus will ever be the one who perfects all our offerings of praise. And that’s both humbling and amazing.

I think it all comes down to setting right standards. Testing is a very biblical practice. 2 Corinthians 13:52 Corinthians 13:5
[5]Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the
faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about
yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?--unless indeed you
fail to meet the test! (ESV)

, “Test yourselves…”, Revelation 2:2Revelation 2:2
[2]"'I know your works, your toil and your patient
endurance, and how you cannot bear with those who are evil,
but have tested those who call themselves apostles and are
not, and found them to be false. (ESV)

, “you put to the test those who call themselves apostles, and they are not, and you found them to be false”, I Corinthians 3:131 Corinthians 3:13
[13]each one's work will become manifest, for the Day
will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and
the fire will test what sort of work each one has done.
(ESV)

, “the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work.” As leaders, the last verse ought to challenge each of us to constantly test and make sure the songs we sing pass. My struggle is that I often try to make my own standard rather than allowing God’s Word to guide me in this endeavor. Paul Baloche, Bob Kauflin, Brenton Brown, Kathryn Scott, Matt Redman, and Graham Kendrick (as gifted as they all are) would all agree that they do not set the standard. It is much higher than any of us could imagine on our own. I’d encourage you and me to keep testing as one day I Corinthians 3:131 Corinthians 3:13
[13]each one's work will become manifest, for the Day
will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and
the fire will test what sort of work each one has done.
(ESV)

will come to pass.

If I’ve missed the mark here, please feel free to correct…

AC

Sovereign Grace has during the last 5 years taught me more about sound theology, and my need for it, than my first 25 years of Christian faith. But, I have also watched evidences of sinful arrogant behavior rise to the surface in my life. I became quick to discount “others” and their music and style because it didn’t closely match what I began to experience; it wasn’t like mine so it must be wrong. I have sat for hours picking apart songs and sermons and prayers looking for traces of error, and it’s now as if I can’t sit in church without my radar turned on. And you know, sometimes I wish I could turn it off.

I know that I am a Christian with a charismatic reformed influence and theology…and yes, I am “more at home” in that style of worship experience; but I feel smitten with a charge to be careful now not to insulate myself, and in doing so, remove myself from the very gracious influences that God used to orient me toward him. It feels wrong when I do it, and I ask myself “at the end of the day” how does it all really matter?

Bob, when my life is over, here, will the Savior love me more or less because my songs and the songs I sang were not of a particular variety or style or (dare I say it) brand of theology?

Surely we need to be careful with songs that do not glorify God, but honestly, when Christ died, he did die for me, and his dying for me glorified God deeply…because having died for me I now live to glorify my Savior. I never had a hard time with the last line of the song, maybe He did think of me (us).

Bob, and to all of you, God bless you, and thank you for your great works and contributions to the Body of Christ. I’m not much, believe me, but I do personally struggle with how quickly I can scrutinize someone else’s work…even discount it…and try to change them…and assimilate them into (The Correct Way) to do things.

Lord, help me when I do this…

You asked about the Hillsong repertoire. I haven’t listened to all of the LIVE album yet, but have listened through at least five Hillsongs projects. I have more thoughts that I’ll be able to share here. At some point I may do a post on this.

As I see it, here are the upsides. Their music is generally engaging, contemporary, energetic, and moving. They desire to serve others with their music. They love and are committed to the local church. They do much to help the poor. The few folks I’ve met are humble servants (Steve McPherson, Reuben Morgan). In other words, Hillsong is more than the songs they produce.

Because of that, I think there are downsides to Hillsong, which include the Hillsong music culture and content of their songs. The songs are typically presented in an all-out rock concert format, where emotional experiences can be just as much a matter of lights, sounds, and programming as what we’re singing. Their theology can be unclear, man-centered (all about OUR actions and passion), and lean towards the “prosperity” gospel. Thankfully, I think the writers are starting to emphasize themes that reflect a more serious understanding of what God has done for us in Christ. But for the most part, I still find certain lines vague, tending towards a self-focus, and unhelpful.

We’ve realized that promoting Hillsong music at our church can expose the church to the larger culture of Hillsong. For that reason, we’ve been slow to introduce Hillsong songs, and when we have, we’ve usually decided there are better songs out there that touch on the same themes.

Hope that’s helpful. Feel free to follow up.