I received this question from Mark:
“While we are Southern Baptist, we are definitely reformed in our theology. We also do not believe that the gifts of the Spirit have ceased. When we were attending the Worship God conference , we were moved by those who shared from the prophecy mic. It was an incredible part of our worship to hear scripture, illustrations and such. Can you share with me how you introduced that to your church? Any guidance and input you could give would be great as we pray and seek God’s leadership in introducing this to our people. There’s no question that this is scriptural. But, we want to make sure we present this correctly so that our congregation will understand the purpose of adding this to our worship meetings.”
I’m not sure that everyone reading this blog believes that “there’s no question” that having a microphone for congregational participation is Scriptural. But, for the sake of space, I’ll assume that you’re at least open to the idea. Also, while the title of the this post focuses on prophecy, there are many ways that a congregation can meaningfully contribute to a Sunday meeting.
But let me begin by stressing that congregational participation is always subject to and led by elders who shepherd the flock, exercise oversight, and are over their congregations in the Lord ( 1 Pet. 5:21 Peter 5:2
[2]shepherd the flock of God that is among you,
exercising oversight, not under compulsion, but willingly,
as God would have you; not for shameful gain, but eagerly;
(ESV)
; 1 Thess. 5:121 Thessalonians 5:12
[12]We ask you, brothers, to respect those who labor
among you and are over you in the Lord and admonish you,
(ESV)
). One of the primary purposes in gathering is to hear and apply God’s Word that is proclaimed by those he has raised up as pastor-teachers. But another important aspect is the ministry we bring to one another. Col. 3:16Colossians 3:16
[16]Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching
and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing psalms
and hymns and spiritual songs, with thankfulness in your
hearts to God. (ESV)
says we’re to teach and admonish one another. The nearly thirty “one anothers” of the New Testament indicate that meetings include more than a group listening to a single person. 1 Cor. 141 Corinthians 14
[14:1]Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual
gifts, especially that you may prophesy. [2]For one who
speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one
understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.
[3]On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to
people for their upbuilding and encouragement and
consolation. [4]The one who speaks in a tongue builds up
himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church.
[5]Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to
prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one
who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that
the church may be built up.
[6]Now, brothers, if I come to you speaking in tongues,
how will I benefit you unless I bring you some revelation
or knowledge or prophecy or teaching? [7]If even lifeless
instruments, such as the flute or the harp, do not give
distinct notes, how will anyone know what is played? [8]And
if the bugle gives an indistinct sound, who will get ready
for battle? [9]So with yourselves, if with your tongue you
utter speech that is not intelligible, how will anyone know
what is said? For you will be speaking into the air.
[10]There are doubtless many different languages in the
world, and none is without meaning, [11]but if I do not
know the meaning of the language, I will be a foreigner to
the speaker and the speaker a foreigner to me. [12]So with
yourselves, since you are eager for manifestations of the
Spirit, strive to excel in building up the church.
[13]Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray
for the power to interpret. [14]For if I pray in a tongue,
my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful. [15]What am I to
do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my
mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will
sing with my mind also. [16]Otherwise, if you give thanks
with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an
outsider say "Amen" to your thanksgiving when he does not
know what you are saying? [17]For you may be giving thanks
well enough, but the other person is not being built up.
[18]I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of
you. [19]Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five
words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten
thousand words in a tongue.
[20]Brothers, do not be children in your thinking. Be
infants in evil, but in your thinking be mature. [21]In the
Law it is written, "By people of strange tongues and by the
lips of foreigners will I speak to this people, and even
then they will not listen to me, says the Lord." [22]Thus
tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers,
while prophecy is a sign not for unbelievers but for
believers. [23]If, therefore, the whole church comes
together and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or
unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are out of
your minds? [24]But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or
outsider enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to
account by all, [25]the secrets of his heart are disclosed,
and so, falling on his face, he will worship God and
declare that God is really among you.
[26]What then, brothers? When you come together, each
one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an
interpretation. Let all things be done for building up.
[27]If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at
most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret.
[28]But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them
keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God.
[29]Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others
weigh what is said. [30]If a revelation is made to another
sitting there, let the first be silent. [31]For you can all
prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all be
encouraged, [32]and the spirits of prophets are subject to
prophets. [33]For God is not a God of confusion but of
peace.
As in all the churches of the saints, [34]the women
should keep silent in the churches. For they are not
permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law
also says. [35]If there is anything they desire to learn,
let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for
a woman to speak in church.
[36]Or was it from you that the word of God came? Or are
you the only ones it has reached? [37]If anyone thinks that
he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that
the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord.
[38]If anyone does not recognize this, he is not
recognized. [39]So, my brothers, earnestly desire to
prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. [40]But
all things should be done decently and in order. (ESV)
, and especially v. 26 imply that various contributions from members of the church are God’s intention.
How that’s done depends on a number of factors, including the size of the church, the maturity of the people, and the church’s history. In Mark’s church, these are some of the ways I’d move ahead.
1. As with any change you want to make, begin by teaching what God’s Word says. Teach the church on the nature of the church and the place of mutual edification in the corporate meeting. David Peterson’s Engaging with God is a great resource. Teach on the variety and importance of the spiritual gifts. 1 Cor. 12-141 Corinthians 12-14
[12:1]Now concerning spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not
want you to be uninformed. [2]You know that when you were
pagans you were led astray to mute idols, however you were
led. [3]Therefore I want you to understand that no one
speaking in the Spirit of God ever says "Jesus is
accursed!" and no one can say "Jesus is Lord" except in the
Holy Spirit.
[4]Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same
Spirit; [5]and there are varieties of service, but the same
Lord; [6]and there are varieties of activities, but it is
the same God who empowers them all in everyone. [7]To each
is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common
good. [8]For to one is given through the Spirit the
utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of
knowledge according to the same Spirit, [9]to another faith
by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one
Spirit, [10]to another the working of miracles, to another
prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between
spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another
the interpretation of tongues. [11]All these are empowered
by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one
individually as he wills.
[12]For just as the body is one and has many members,
and all the members of the body, though many, are one body,
so it is with Christ. [13]For in one Spirit we were all
baptized into one body--Jews or Greeks, slaves or free--and
all were made to drink of one Spirit.
[14]For the body does not consist of one member but of
many. [15]If the foot should say, "Because I am not a hand,
I do not belong to the body," that would not make it any
less a part of the body. [16]And if the ear should say,
"Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,"
that would not make it any less a part of the body. [17]If
the whole body were an eye, where would be the sense of
hearing? If the whole body were an ear, where would be the
sense of smell? [18]But as it is, God arranged the members
in the body, each one of them, as he chose. [19]If all were
a single member, where would the body be? [20]As it is,
there are many parts, yet one body.
[21]The eye cannot say to the hand, "I have no need of
you," nor again the head to the feet, "I have no need of
you." [22]On the contrary, the parts of the body that seem
to be weaker are indispensable, [23]and on those parts of
the body that we think less honorable we bestow the greater
honor, and our unpresentable parts are treated with greater
modesty, [24]which our more presentable parts do not
require. But God has so composed the body, giving greater
honor to the part that lacked it, [25]that there may be no
division in the body, but that the members may have the
same care for one another. [26]If one member suffers, all
suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice
together.
[27]Now you are the body of Christ and individually
members of it. [28]And God has appointed in the church
first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then
miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating,
and various kinds of tongues. [29]Are all apostles? Are all
prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? [30]Do
all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do
all interpret? [31]But earnestly desire the higher gifts.
And I will show you a still more excellent way.
[13:1]If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels,
but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
[2]And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all
mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as
to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. [3]If
I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be
burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.
[4]Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or
boast; it is not arrogant [5]or rude. It does not insist on
its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; [6]it does
not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth.
[7]Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all
things, endures all things.
[8]Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass
away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it
will pass away. [9]For we know in part and we prophesy in
part, [10]but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass
away. [11]When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I
thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I
became a man, I gave up childish ways. [12]For now we see
in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in
part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully
known.
[13]So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but
the greatest of these is love.
[14:1]Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual
gifts, especially that you may prophesy. [2]For one who
speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one
understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.
[3]On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to
people for their upbuilding and encouragement and
consolation. [4]The one who speaks in a tongue builds up
himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church.
[5]Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to
prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one
who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that
the church may be built up.
[6]Now, brothers, if I come to you speaking in tongues,
how will I benefit you unless I bring you some revelation
or knowledge or prophecy or teaching? [7]If even lifeless
instruments, such as the flute or the harp, do not give
distinct notes, how will anyone know what is played? [8]And
if the bugle gives an indistinct sound, who will get ready
for battle? [9]So with yourselves, if with your tongue you
utter speech that is not intelligible, how will anyone know
what is said? For you will be speaking into the air.
[10]There are doubtless many different languages in the
world, and none is without meaning, [11]but if I do not
know the meaning of the language, I will be a foreigner to
the speaker and the speaker a foreigner to me. [12]So with
yourselves, since you are eager for manifestations of the
Spirit, strive to excel in building up the church.
[13]Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray
for the power to interpret. [14]For if I pray in a tongue,
my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful. [15]What am I to
do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my
mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will
sing with my mind also. [16]Otherwise, if you give thanks
with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an
outsider say "Amen" to your thanksgiving when he does not
know what you are saying? [17]For you may be giving thanks
well enough, but the other person is not being built up.
[18]I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of
you. [19]Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five
words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten
thousand words in a tongue.
[20]Brothers, do not be children in your thinking. Be
infants in evil, but in your thinking be mature. [21]In the
Law it is written, "By people of strange tongues and by the
lips of foreigners will I speak to this people, and even
then they will not listen to me, says the Lord." [22]Thus
tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers,
while prophecy is a sign not for unbelievers but for
believers. [23]If, therefore, the whole church comes
together and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or
unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are out of
your minds? [24]But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or
outsider enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to
account by all, [25]the secrets of his heart are disclosed,
and so, falling on his face, he will worship God and
declare that God is really among you.
[26]What then, brothers? When you come together, each
one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an
interpretation. Let all things be done for building up.
[27]If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at
most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret.
[28]But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them
keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God.
[29]Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others
weigh what is said. [30]If a revelation is made to another
sitting there, let the first be silent. [31]For you can all
prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all be
encouraged, [32]and the spirits of prophets are subject to
prophets. [33]For God is not a God of confusion but of
peace.
As in all the churches of the saints, [34]the women
should keep silent in the churches. For they are not
permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law
also says. [35]If there is anything they desire to learn,
let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for
a woman to speak in church.
[36]Or was it from you that the word of God came? Or are
you the only ones it has reached? [37]If anyone thinks that
he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that
the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord.
[38]If anyone does not recognize this, he is not
recognized. [39]So, my brothers, earnestly desire to
prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. [40]But
all things should be done decently and in order. (ESV)
are obvious passages for that. A few books we’ve found helpful are Wayne Grudem’s The Gift of Prophecy, Showing the Spirit by D.A. Carson, and Max Turner’s The Holy Spirit and Spiritual Gifts. Sam Storm’s The Beginner’s Guide to the Spiritual Gifts is helpful as a simple and practical introduction to the nine gifts listed in 1 Cor. 121 Corinthians 12
[12:1]Now concerning spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not
want you to be uninformed. [2]You know that when you were
pagans you were led astray to mute idols, however you were
led. [3]Therefore I want you to understand that no one
speaking in the Spirit of God ever says "Jesus is
accursed!" and no one can say "Jesus is Lord" except in the
Holy Spirit.
[4]Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same
Spirit; [5]and there are varieties of service, but the same
Lord; [6]and there are varieties of activities, but it is
the same God who empowers them all in everyone. [7]To each
is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common
good. [8]For to one is given through the Spirit the
utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of
knowledge according to the same Spirit, [9]to another faith
by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one
Spirit, [10]to another the working of miracles, to another
prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between
spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another
the interpretation of tongues. [11]All these are empowered
by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one
individually as he wills.
[12]For just as the body is one and has many members,
and all the members of the body, though many, are one body,
so it is with Christ. [13]For in one Spirit we were all
baptized into one body--Jews or Greeks, slaves or free--and
all were made to drink of one Spirit.
[14]For the body does not consist of one member but of
many. [15]If the foot should say, "Because I am not a hand,
I do not belong to the body," that would not make it any
less a part of the body. [16]And if the ear should say,
"Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,"
that would not make it any less a part of the body. [17]If
the whole body were an eye, where would be the sense of
hearing? If the whole body were an ear, where would be the
sense of smell? [18]But as it is, God arranged the members
in the body, each one of them, as he chose. [19]If all were
a single member, where would the body be? [20]As it is,
there are many parts, yet one body.
[21]The eye cannot say to the hand, "I have no need of
you," nor again the head to the feet, "I have no need of
you." [22]On the contrary, the parts of the body that seem
to be weaker are indispensable, [23]and on those parts of
the body that we think less honorable we bestow the greater
honor, and our unpresentable parts are treated with greater
modesty, [24]which our more presentable parts do not
require. But God has so composed the body, giving greater
honor to the part that lacked it, [25]that there may be no
division in the body, but that the members may have the
same care for one another. [26]If one member suffers, all
suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice
together.
[27]Now you are the body of Christ and individually
members of it. [28]And God has appointed in the church
first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then
miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating,
and various kinds of tongues. [29]Are all apostles? Are all
prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? [30]Do
all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do
all interpret? [31]But earnestly desire the higher gifts.
And I will show you a still more excellent way. (ESV)
. Explain that you’d like to create opportunities for members of the church to serve other members through verbal contributions. Teach on the importance of spiritual leadership and orderliness in the Sunday gathering. Inviting members to contribute isn’t abdicating your role to shepherd and lead the flock.
2. Provide a microphone for ministry from members of the church. Spell out what kinds of contributions you’re looking for. They might include Scripture readings, prayers, and prophetic impressions. Generally, they’re spontaneous, but they can be written down beforehand as well. You can also invite people to come up and pray for a specific situation. Even though it may not be “prophecy” strictly speaking, it can lead to people becoming more familiar with contributing to the meeting. If you’re in a very small church, a microphone might be unnecessary, but I’d still recommend having a place people can go to if they have something they’d like to share with the church. We have an on/off switch at this microphone so the sound engineer doesn’t have to control it.
3. Station a pastor at the microphone to screen contributions before they’re shared publicly. We’ve found that having two pastors makes it easier to evaluate what’s being shared, because there are times when you’re not quite sure about what someone’s bringing. This is one of the ways we obey the command to test prophecy ( 1 Thess. 5:20-211 Thessalonians 5:20-21
[20]Do not despise prophecies, [21]but test everything;
hold fast what is good. (ESV)
). At the start, I’d lean towards allowing more contributions than fewer. They may all not be “home runs” but people will be encouraged when God speaks to and through them.
4. I’d evaluate contributions in at least five areas: content, attitude, communication, length, and timing. Is what they’re sharing faithful to Scripture? Are they sharing to serve people, or to not-so-subtly communicate their own perspective to balance out someone else or correct the church? Can the person share their contribution effectively and with appropriate emotion? Is their contribution brief and to the point, or does it wander aimlessly or go on for a few minutes? Is what they want to share going to contribute to the flow of the meeting, or does it seem out of place, tangential, too late, or too early?
5. Personally thank and encourage anyone who comes with something to share, whether or not the church actually hears it. If nothing else, thank them for being faithful to obey what they sensed was God encouraging them to share with the church. At the same time, follow up with anyone you think is wrongly motivated or lacks the gifting to share publicly. It’s better to speak to them directly than try to address them in a veiled way through a sermon or general announcement.
6. Finally, encourage and train those who are particularly gifted. I invited a group of men and women to study Grudem’s The Gift of Prophecy once a month for nine months. We’re currently offering a four week class on the Holy Spirit and the spiritual gifts.
We don’t have contributions from the congregation at every meeting, for different reasons. Sometimes what we’ve planned for the morning doesn’t leave much space. Other times no one come to the microphone. But at those times, we’re very aware that the Spirit is working in many other ways to display God’s varied grace and to bring glory to the Savior ( 1 Pet. 4:10-111 Peter 4:10-11
[10]As each has received a gift, use it to serve one
another, as good stewards of God's varied grace:
[11]whoever speaks, as one who speaks oracles of God;
whoever serves, as one who serves by the strength that God
supplies--in order that in everything God may be glorified
through Jesus Christ. To him belong glory and dominion
forever and ever. Amen. (ESV)
).
I trust this is helpful. It’s difficult to get too specific without knowing the details of a particular church. But I think these principles could be applied profitably in most churches that want to encourage edifying verbal contributions from their congregations. Please feel free to follow up with any questions or comments.
For more resources on this topic you can download these free messages from the Sovereign Grace site:
Eagerly Desiring Spiritual Gifts by Aron Osborne
The Contours of our Charismatic Theology by Jeff Purswell
Pursuing God’s Presence by Bob Kauflin
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I’m a worship pastor in an independent Bible Church in Houston. I have been a cessationist for a number of years (after experiencing a vast abuse of spiritual gifts with an on-campus group in college). Recently, however, and largely due to the carefulness and responsibility of Sovereign Grace folks with regard to the gifts, I’ve been wanting to re-examine these issues in the Bible and determine if what I’ve believed is truly what the Bible teaches. So I hope you’ll hear this question as from one who is inquisitive and open to what the Scriptures say, but who is not yet fully convinced.
My biggest hesitancy in accepting modern-day prophecy as an operational gift is reflected in the following sentence from your post: “They may all not be “home runs” but people will be encouraged when God speaks to and through them.” It seems to me that Scripture is completely void of any instance of God speaking “to and through” somebody and it being less than a “home run.” When God spoke to someone in the Scriptures, it was clear and unavoidable. Moses didn’t have to learn how to hear God before he was spoken to from a bush. Paul did not have training in operating in the Spirit before Jesus stopped him in his tracks on the way to Damascus. When Old Testament prophets and New Testament apostles were given a directive by God, there was no need for interpretation of what God had said, or any question as to whether or not God had truly said it. God spoke to people, the people understood, and responded (either obediently or disobediently, as in Jonah). I have not read a compelling case for Biblical examples, or instruction, regarding New Testament prophecy as something less than reliable.
The difficulty is that I also feel the standard cessationist position is largely an argument from one verse ( 1 Cor. 13:81 Corinthians 13:8This text is from the ESV Bible. Visit www.esv.org to learn about the ESV.
) and from relative historical silence regarding true and trustworthy Biblical prophecy (and the problem of the closed biblical canon; if prophecy today were the same nature as prophecy in biblical days, wouldn’t we need to re-open the biblical canon, which is forbidden in the Bible itself?).
[8]Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass
away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it
will pass away. (ESV)
In other words, I’m not fully convinced by the argumentation on either side of this issue, and am thus not sure of where to land. Any help you could offer, and/or resources to which you could point me, would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks for your continued service to Christ and his body through your worship ministry and through this blog.
Grace,
Kyle
Comment by Kyle — October 20, 2007 @ 9:27 am
After leaving my comment, I followed your link to Carson’s “Showing the Spirit,” and read several reviews at Amazon. Looks like this may be a worthwhile endeavor in approaching these issues carefully and biblically.
Thanks again.
Comment by Kyle — October 20, 2007 @ 9:41 am
Bob,
I think another line from your post is helpful with respect to Kyle’s question:
This is one of the ways we obey the command to test prophecy ( 1 Thess. 5:20-211 Thessalonians 5:20-21This text is from the ESV Bible. Visit www.esv.org to learn about the ESV.
).
[20]Do not despise prophecies, [21]but test everything;
hold fast what is good. (ESV)
In my experience at Covenant Life and in other contexts where prophecy is practiced carefully, there is a clear distinction that is constantly drawn between the kind of prophecy which God intended to be canonized as Scripture and the kind of prophecy that is practiced in every day interaction between believers. There never is any question that prophecy inspired by God for the purpose of inscripturation was always a “grand slam.” But there is also room for a lesser level of inspiration which issues in prophecy which is often less clear and certain. Therefore I often heard at CovLife and elsewhere qualifying statements such as, “I believe this is from the Lord, but I am not absolutely sure…” etc.
If all prophecy at all times had to be a “home run” there would really be little need for “testing.” It would seem it would be clear when we are hearing something that was intended to be written into a book as authoritative as the Bible.
Yet it makes perfect sense to me that God would move people to prophecy without giving 100% clarity so He can move on others in the body, especially leadership, to develop prophetic gifting and watch over the flock.
Hope this is helpful.
Allan
Comment by Allan — October 20, 2007 @ 10:39 am
Hi, Bob. I really like what you’ve written and agree with most of it in principle. I have one concern, however.
I do agree that careful oversight is critical to this process, but the type of screening you describe in Step 3 seems foreign to the text in 1 Corinthians 141 Corinthians 14This text is from the ESV Bible. Visit www.esv.org to learn about the ESV.
, where the contributions are clearly spontaneous and unscripted.
[14:1]Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual
gifts, especially that you may prophesy. [2]For one who
speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one
understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.
[3]On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to
people for their upbuilding and encouragement and
consolation. [4]The one who speaks in a tongue builds up
himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church.
[5]Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to
prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one
who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that
the church may be built up.
[6]Now, brothers, if I come to you speaking in tongues,
how will I benefit you unless I bring you some revelation
or knowledge or prophecy or teaching? [7]If even lifeless
instruments, such as the flute or the harp, do not give
distinct notes, how will anyone know what is played? [8]And
if the bugle gives an indistinct sound, who will get ready
for battle? [9]So with yourselves, if with your tongue you
utter speech that is not intelligible, how will anyone know
what is said? For you will be speaking into the air.
[10]There are doubtless many different languages in the
world, and none is without meaning, [11]but if I do not
know the meaning of the language, I will be a foreigner to
the speaker and the speaker a foreigner to me. [12]So with
yourselves, since you are eager for manifestations of the
Spirit, strive to excel in building up the church.
[13]Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray
for the power to interpret. [14]For if I pray in a tongue,
my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful. [15]What am I to
do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my
mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will
sing with my mind also. [16]Otherwise, if you give thanks
with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an
outsider say "Amen" to your thanksgiving when he does not
know what you are saying? [17]For you may be giving thanks
well enough, but the other person is not being built up.
[18]I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of
you. [19]Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five
words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten
thousand words in a tongue.
[20]Brothers, do not be children in your thinking. Be
infants in evil, but in your thinking be mature. [21]In the
Law it is written, "By people of strange tongues and by the
lips of foreigners will I speak to this people, and even
then they will not listen to me, says the Lord." [22]Thus
tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers,
while prophecy is a sign not for unbelievers but for
believers. [23]If, therefore, the whole church comes
together and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or
unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are out of
your minds? [24]But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or
outsider enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to
account by all, [25]the secrets of his heart are disclosed,
and so, falling on his face, he will worship God and
declare that God is really among you.
[26]What then, brothers? When you come together, each
one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an
interpretation. Let all things be done for building up.
[27]If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at
most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret.
[28]But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them
keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God.
[29]Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others
weigh what is said. [30]If a revelation is made to another
sitting there, let the first be silent. [31]For you can all
prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all be
encouraged, [32]and the spirits of prophets are subject to
prophets. [33]For God is not a God of confusion but of
peace.
As in all the churches of the saints, [34]the women
should keep silent in the churches. For they are not
permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law
also says. [35]If there is anything they desire to learn,
let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for
a woman to speak in church.
[36]Or was it from you that the word of God came? Or are
you the only ones it has reached? [37]If anyone thinks that
he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that
the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord.
[38]If anyone does not recognize this, he is not
recognized. [39]So, my brothers, earnestly desire to
prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. [40]But
all things should be done decently and in order. (ESV)
I don’t mean this next question to sound like a challenge. I’m genuinely interested in your answer. How would you justify, Biblically, a departure from the apparent pattern in 1 Corinthians 141 Corinthians 14This text is from the ESV Bible. Visit www.esv.org to learn about the ESV.
?
[14:1]Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual
gifts, especially that you may prophesy. [2]For one who
speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one
understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.
[3]On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to
people for their upbuilding and encouragement and
consolation. [4]The one who speaks in a tongue builds up
himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church.
[5]Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to
prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one
who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that
the church may be built up.
[6]Now, brothers, if I come to you speaking in tongues,
how will I benefit you unless I bring you some revelation
or knowledge or prophecy or teaching? [7]If even lifeless
instruments, such as the flute or the harp, do not give
distinct notes, how will anyone know what is played? [8]And
if the bugle gives an indistinct sound, who will get ready
for battle? [9]So with yourselves, if with your tongue you
utter speech that is not intelligible, how will anyone know
what is said? For you will be speaking into the air.
[10]There are doubtless many different languages in the
world, and none is without meaning, [11]but if I do not
know the meaning of the language, I will be a foreigner to
the speaker and the speaker a foreigner to me. [12]So with
yourselves, since you are eager for manifestations of the
Spirit, strive to excel in building up the church.
[13]Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray
for the power to interpret. [14]For if I pray in a tongue,
my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful. [15]What am I to
do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my
mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will
sing with my mind also. [16]Otherwise, if you give thanks
with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an
outsider say "Amen" to your thanksgiving when he does not
know what you are saying? [17]For you may be giving thanks
well enough, but the other person is not being built up.
[18]I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of
you. [19]Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five
words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten
thousand words in a tongue.
[20]Brothers, do not be children in your thinking. Be
infants in evil, but in your thinking be mature. [21]In the
Law it is written, "By people of strange tongues and by the
lips of foreigners will I speak to this people, and even
then they will not listen to me, says the Lord." [22]Thus
tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers,
while prophecy is a sign not for unbelievers but for
believers. [23]If, therefore, the whole church comes
together and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or
unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are out of
your minds? [24]But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or
outsider enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to
account by all, [25]the secrets of his heart are disclosed,
and so, falling on his face, he will worship God and
declare that God is really among you.
[26]What then, brothers? When you come together, each
one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an
interpretation. Let all things be done for building up.
[27]If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at
most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret.
[28]But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them
keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God.
[29]Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others
weigh what is said. [30]If a revelation is made to another
sitting there, let the first be silent. [31]For you can all
prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all be
encouraged, [32]and the spirits of prophets are subject to
prophets. [33]For God is not a God of confusion but of
peace.
As in all the churches of the saints, [34]the women
should keep silent in the churches. For they are not
permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law
also says. [35]If there is anything they desire to learn,
let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for
a woman to speak in church.
[36]Or was it from you that the word of God came? Or are
you the only ones it has reached? [37]If anyone thinks that
he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that
the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord.
[38]If anyone does not recognize this, he is not
recognized. [39]So, my brothers, earnestly desire to
prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. [40]But
all things should be done decently and in order. (ESV)
Comment by Barry — October 20, 2007 @ 3:07 pm
Kyle,
Thanks for your helpful and humble comments. I think the question of prophecy has to do with whether or not God ever speaks to us situationally or circumstantially, in ways that aren’t canonical, but are nevertheless, truly him speaking to us. I understand how some could see this as leading to a gross subjectivism, but the right response to abuse of a gift isn’t disuse, but proper use.
Paul himself said we “prophesy in part” and “see through a mirror dimly” ( 1 Cor. 13:9, 121 Corinthians 13:9This text is from the ESV Bible. Visit www.esv.org to learn about the ESV.
). In commenting on how Paul viewed prophecy in the Corinthian church, Max Turner, professor of NT Studies at London School of Theology, writes, “[Paul] may have expected prophecies to give direction in situations where neither Scripture, nor gospel, nor tradition could do so, or to set particular Corinthian events, practices or spiritual states in heavenly perspective. Through such prophecies the risen Lord might be expected to reveal how he perceived the church’s condition in general and in particular, and to give it spiritual direction” (The Holy Spirit and Spiritual Gifts, p. 215). Al Allan said above, Paul obviously didn’t expect the New Testament prophecies to be “home runs” every time, or else they wouldn’t have to be tested.
[9]For we know in part and we prophesy in part, (ESV)
I’ve known people who have had a remarkable track record for sharing accurate prophetic words. I’ve known others who are consistently “off.” But no one has been close to 100% right. I don’t expect them to be. But neither do I expect that the Spirit will never speak to us for our upbuilding, encouragement, and consolation ( 1 Cor. 14:31 Corinthians 14:3This text is from the ESV Bible. Visit www.esv.org to learn about the ESV.
). The fact is, the Holy Spirit gives numerous gifts to the members of the church for the edification of the body. Why limit ourselves to a few?
[3]On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to
people for their upbuilding and encouragement and
consolation. (ESV)
Comment by Bob Kauflin — October 20, 2007 @ 3:20 pm
Barry,
Thanks for stopping by and for your question. I’d start by saying that what is described in 1 Corinthians 141 Corinthians 14This text is from the ESV Bible. Visit www.esv.org to learn about the ESV.
isn’t meant to be our only model for prophetic ministry. Paul was bringing order to an unwieldy, disorderly situation. But he doesn’t command all contributions to spontaneous and unscripted. In smaller groups that kind of spontaneous ministry is more manageable and appropriate.
[14:1]Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual
gifts, especially that you may prophesy. [2]For one who
speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one
understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.
[3]On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to
people for their upbuilding and encouragement and
consolation. [4]The one who speaks in a tongue builds up
himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church.
[5]Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to
prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one
who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that
the church may be built up.
[6]Now, brothers, if I come to you speaking in tongues,
how will I benefit you unless I bring you some revelation
or knowledge or prophecy or teaching? [7]If even lifeless
instruments, such as the flute or the harp, do not give
distinct notes, how will anyone know what is played? [8]And
if the bugle gives an indistinct sound, who will get ready
for battle? [9]So with yourselves, if with your tongue you
utter speech that is not intelligible, how will anyone know
what is said? For you will be speaking into the air.
[10]There are doubtless many different languages in the
world, and none is without meaning, [11]but if I do not
know the meaning of the language, I will be a foreigner to
the speaker and the speaker a foreigner to me. [12]So with
yourselves, since you are eager for manifestations of the
Spirit, strive to excel in building up the church.
[13]Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray
for the power to interpret. [14]For if I pray in a tongue,
my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful. [15]What am I to
do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my
mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will
sing with my mind also. [16]Otherwise, if you give thanks
with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an
outsider say "Amen" to your thanksgiving when he does not
know what you are saying? [17]For you may be giving thanks
well enough, but the other person is not being built up.
[18]I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of
you. [19]Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five
words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten
thousand words in a tongue.
[20]Brothers, do not be children in your thinking. Be
infants in evil, but in your thinking be mature. [21]In the
Law it is written, "By people of strange tongues and by the
lips of foreigners will I speak to this people, and even
then they will not listen to me, says the Lord." [22]Thus
tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers,
while prophecy is a sign not for unbelievers but for
believers. [23]If, therefore, the whole church comes
together and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or
unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are out of
your minds? [24]But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or
outsider enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to
account by all, [25]the secrets of his heart are disclosed,
and so, falling on his face, he will worship God and
declare that God is really among you.
[26]What then, brothers? When you come together, each
one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an
interpretation. Let all things be done for building up.
[27]If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at
most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret.
[28]But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them
keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God.
[29]Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others
weigh what is said. [30]If a revelation is made to another
sitting there, let the first be silent. [31]For you can all
prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all be
encouraged, [32]and the spirits of prophets are subject to
prophets. [33]For God is not a God of confusion but of
peace.
As in all the churches of the saints, [34]the women
should keep silent in the churches. For they are not
permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law
also says. [35]If there is anything they desire to learn,
let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for
a woman to speak in church.
[36]Or was it from you that the word of God came? Or are
you the only ones it has reached? [37]If anyone thinks that
he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that
the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord.
[38]If anyone does not recognize this, he is not
recognized. [39]So, my brothers, earnestly desire to
prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. [40]But
all things should be done decently and in order. (ESV)
But as a church grows, the pastor(s) are responsible to insure that what takes place serves the entire church. We’ve found that when contributions aren’t well led, there can be a number of negative effects. People can contribute from sinful motives, they can make contradictory or unscriptural points, the preaching of the Word can be neglected, and people can tend to develop a mentality that exalts spontaneous experience over objective truth.
Spontaneity is a characteristic of prophecy, but what comes spontaneously at one moment doesn’t have to be shared right away. Timing is another aspect of the Spirit’s leading. He may bring something spontaneously to mind in our devotions that he wants us to share with someone later in the week.
Let me know if that’s helpful.
Comment by Bob Kauflin — October 20, 2007 @ 3:59 pm
Thanks for the response, Bob. It is helpful, and I don’t have any problem accepting the practical, pastoral wisdom in everything you’ve said. I hold you and all the men in Sovereign Grace in high esteem, and value your counsel.
My struggle with this is really exegetical and not practical. I guess I just don’t see the screening process in the text. Forgoing some sort of screening would potentially increase the need for public correction (which is never pleasant), but seems to me to be more faithful to what Paul describes in 1 Corinthians 141 Corinthians 14This text is from the ESV Bible. Visit www.esv.org to learn about the ESV.
.
[14:1]Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual
gifts, especially that you may prophesy. [2]For one who
speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one
understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.
[3]On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to
people for their upbuilding and encouragement and
consolation. [4]The one who speaks in a tongue builds up
himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church.
[5]Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to
prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one
who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that
the church may be built up.
[6]Now, brothers, if I come to you speaking in tongues,
how will I benefit you unless I bring you some revelation
or knowledge or prophecy or teaching? [7]If even lifeless
instruments, such as the flute or the harp, do not give
distinct notes, how will anyone know what is played? [8]And
if the bugle gives an indistinct sound, who will get ready
for battle? [9]So with yourselves, if with your tongue you
utter speech that is not intelligible, how will anyone know
what is said? For you will be speaking into the air.
[10]There are doubtless many different languages in the
world, and none is without meaning, [11]but if I do not
know the meaning of the language, I will be a foreigner to
the speaker and the speaker a foreigner to me. [12]So with
yourselves, since you are eager for manifestations of the
Spirit, strive to excel in building up the church.
[13]Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray
for the power to interpret. [14]For if I pray in a tongue,
my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful. [15]What am I to
do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my
mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will
sing with my mind also. [16]Otherwise, if you give thanks
with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an
outsider say "Amen" to your thanksgiving when he does not
know what you are saying? [17]For you may be giving thanks
well enough, but the other person is not being built up.
[18]I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of
you. [19]Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five
words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten
thousand words in a tongue.
[20]Brothers, do not be children in your thinking. Be
infants in evil, but in your thinking be mature. [21]In the
Law it is written, "By people of strange tongues and by the
lips of foreigners will I speak to this people, and even
then they will not listen to me, says the Lord." [22]Thus
tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers,
while prophecy is a sign not for unbelievers but for
believers. [23]If, therefore, the whole church comes
together and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or
unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are out of
your minds? [24]But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or
outsider enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to
account by all, [25]the secrets of his heart are disclosed,
and so, falling on his face, he will worship God and
declare that God is really among you.
[26]What then, brothers? When you come together, each
one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an
interpretation. Let all things be done for building up.
[27]If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at
most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret.
[28]But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them
keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God.
[29]Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others
weigh what is said. [30]If a revelation is made to another
sitting there, let the first be silent. [31]For you can all
prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all be
encouraged, [32]and the spirits of prophets are subject to
prophets. [33]For God is not a God of confusion but of
peace.
As in all the churches of the saints, [34]the women
should keep silent in the churches. For they are not
permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law
also says. [35]If there is anything they desire to learn,
let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for
a woman to speak in church.
[36]Or was it from you that the word of God came? Or are
you the only ones it has reached? [37]If anyone thinks that
he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that
the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord.
[38]If anyone does not recognize this, he is not
recognized. [39]So, my brothers, earnestly desire to
prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. [40]But
all things should be done decently and in order. (ESV)
On a practical note, however, I think that the errors you describe above could probably be avoided with good leadership, whether there was a screening process in place or not. The real question, for me, is whether this (or any) particular practice conforms to the Biblical pattern.
Having said all that, though, I fully realize that I could either be misunderstanding the text, or that this text may not be normative for all meetings. I welcome any other thoughts you might have in response.
And, finally, I really do appreciate this post. I plan to share it with my pastor, as it addresses a subject we’ve discussed a number of times. Thanks again!
Comment by Barry — October 20, 2007 @ 4:43 pm
Hi Bob,This text is from the ESV Bible. Visit www.esv.org to learn about the ESV.
does in fact expect a screening process of some sort. v29 says that the others should ‘weigh’ (ESV), ‘weigh carefully’(NIV) what is said or ‘pass judgement’ (NASB). Carson likens the Greek term to ’sifting’.This text is from the ESV Bible. Visit www.esv.org to learn about the ESV.
permits women to do so. Rather, the context suggests the command refers to women not participating in publicly ‘weighing’ what the prophets say.This text is from the ESV Bible. Visit www.esv.org to learn about the ESV.
does in fact suggest a verbal ’screening’ process of prophecy, which only men should participate in. It seems to me that the Sovereign Grace practice of allowing male elders to do this task is a valid and helpful application of this chapter, and of their role to keep watch over the church of God ( Acts 20:28Acts 20:28This text is from the ESV Bible. Visit www.esv.org to learn about the ESV.
).
Thanks for another helpful post. Further to Barry’s question above, it seems to me that 1 Corinthians 141 Corinthians 14
[14:1]Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual
gifts, especially that you may prophesy. [2]For one who
speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one
understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.
[3]On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to
people for their upbuilding and encouragement and
consolation. [4]The one who speaks in a tongue builds up
himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church.
[5]Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to
prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one
who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that
the church may be built up.
[6]Now, brothers, if I come to you speaking in tongues,
how will I benefit you unless I bring you some revelation
or knowledge or prophecy or teaching? [7]If even lifeless
instruments, such as the flute or the harp, do not give
distinct notes, how will anyone know what is played? [8]And
if the bugle gives an indistinct sound, who will get ready
for battle? [9]So with yourselves, if with your tongue you
utter speech that is not intelligible, how will anyone know
what is said? For you will be speaking into the air.
[10]There are doubtless many different languages in the
world, and none is without meaning, [11]but if I do not
know the meaning of the language, I will be a foreigner to
the speaker and the speaker a foreigner to me. [12]So with
yourselves, since you are eager for manifestations of the
Spirit, strive to excel in building up the church.
[13]Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray
for the power to interpret. [14]For if I pray in a tongue,
my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful. [15]What am I to
do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my
mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will
sing with my mind also. [16]Otherwise, if you give thanks
with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an
outsider say "Amen" to your thanksgiving when he does not
know what you are saying? [17]For you may be giving thanks
well enough, but the other person is not being built up.
[18]I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of
you. [19]Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five
words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten
thousand words in a tongue.
[20]Brothers, do not be children in your thinking. Be
infants in evil, but in your thinking be mature. [21]In the
Law it is written, "By people of strange tongues and by the
lips of foreigners will I speak to this people, and even
then they will not listen to me, says the Lord." [22]Thus
tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers,
while prophecy is a sign not for unbelievers but for
believers. [23]If, therefore, the whole church comes
together and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or
unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are out of
your minds? [24]But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or
outsider enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to
account by all, [25]the secrets of his heart are disclosed,
and so, falling on his face, he will worship God and
declare that God is really among you.
[26]What then, brothers? When you come together, each
one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an
interpretation. Let all things be done for building up.
[27]If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at
most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret.
[28]But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them
keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God.
[29]Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others
weigh what is said. [30]If a revelation is made to another
sitting there, let the first be silent. [31]For you can all
prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all be
encouraged, [32]and the spirits of prophets are subject to
prophets. [33]For God is not a God of confusion but of
peace.
As in all the churches of the saints, [34]the women
should keep silent in the churches. For they are not
permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law
also says. [35]If there is anything they desire to learn,
let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for
a woman to speak in church.
[36]Or was it from you that the word of God came? Or are
you the only ones it has reached? [37]If anyone thinks that
he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that
the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord.
[38]If anyone does not recognize this, he is not
recognized. [39]So, my brothers, earnestly desire to
prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. [40]But
all things should be done decently and in order. (ESV)
Carson, Grudem and others argue that the command which follows in v34 for women to ‘keep silent’ cannot be disallowing them to prophesy, as 1 Cor 111 Corinthians 11
[11:1]Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ.
[2]Now I commend you because you remember me in
everything and maintain the traditions even as I delivered
them to you. [3]But I want you to understand that the head
of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband,
and the head of Christ is God. [4]Every man who prays or
prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head, [5]but
every wife who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered
dishonors her head, since it is the same as if her head
were shaven. [6]For if a wife will not cover her head, then
she should cut her hair short. But since it is disgraceful
for a wife to cut off her hair or shave her head, let her
cover her head. [7]For a man ought not to cover his head,
since he is the image and glory of God, but woman is the
glory of man. [8]For man was not made from woman, but woman
from man. [9]Neither was man created for woman, but woman
for man. [10]That is why a wife ought to have a symbol of
authority on her head, because of the angels.
[11]Nevertheless, in the Lord woman is not independent of
man nor man of woman; [12]for as woman was made from man,
so man is now born of woman. And all things are from God.
[13]Judge for yourselves: is it proper for a wife to pray
to God with her head uncovered? [14]Does not nature itself
teach you that if a man wears long hair it is a disgrace
for him, [15]but if a woman has long hair, it is her glory?
For her hair is given to her for a covering. [16]If anyone
is inclined to be contentious, we have no such practice,
nor do the churches of God.
[17]But in the following instructions I do not commend
you, because when you come together it is not for the
better but for the worse. [18]For, in the first place, when
you come together as a church, I hear that there are
divisions among you. And I believe it in part, [19]for
there must be factions among you in order that those who
are genuine among you may be recognized. [20]When you come
together, it is not the Lord's supper that you eat. [21]For
in eating, each one goes ahead with his own meal. One goes
hungry, another gets drunk. [22]What! Do you not have
houses to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of
God and humiliate those who have nothing? What shall I say
to you? Shall I commend you in this? No, I will not.
[23]For I received from the Lord what I also delivered
to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was
betrayed took bread, [24]and when he had given thanks, he
broke it, and said, "This is my body which is for you. Do
this in remembrance of me." [25]In the same way also he
took the cup, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new
covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in
remembrance of me." [26]For as often as you eat this bread
and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he
comes.
[27]Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup
of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty concerning
the body and blood of the Lord. [28]Let a person examine
himself, then, and so eat of the bread and drink of the
cup. [29]For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning
the body eats and drinks judgment on himself. [30]That is
why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died.
[31]But if we judged ourselves truly, we would not be
judged. [32]But when we are judged by the Lord, we are
disciplined so that we may not be condemned along with the
world.
[33]So then, my brothers, when you come together to eat,
wait for one another-- [34]if anyone is hungry, let him eat
at home--so that when you come together it will not be for
judgment. About the other things I will give directions
when I come. (ESV)
Under such a reading 1 Cor 141 Corinthians 14
[14:1]Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual
gifts, especially that you may prophesy. [2]For one who
speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one
understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.
[3]On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to
people for their upbuilding and encouragement and
consolation. [4]The one who speaks in a tongue builds up
himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church.
[5]Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to
prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one
who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that
the church may be built up.
[6]Now, brothers, if I come to you speaking in tongues,
how will I benefit you unless I bring you some revelation
or knowledge or prophecy or teaching? [7]If even lifeless
instruments, such as the flute or the harp, do not give
distinct notes, how will anyone know what is played? [8]And
if the bugle gives an indistinct sound, who will get ready
for battle? [9]So with yourselves, if with your tongue you
utter speech that is not intelligible, how will anyone know
what is said? For you will be speaking into the air.
[10]There are doubtless many different languages in the
world, and none is without meaning, [11]but if I do not
know the meaning of the language, I will be a foreigner to
the speaker and the speaker a foreigner to me. [12]So with
yourselves, since you are eager for manifestations of the
Spirit, strive to excel in building up the church.
[13]Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray
for the power to interpret. [14]For if I pray in a tongue,
my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful. [15]What am I to
do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my
mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will
sing with my mind also. [16]Otherwise, if you give thanks
with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an
outsider say "Amen" to your thanksgiving when he does not
know what you are saying? [17]For you may be giving thanks
well enough, but the other person is not being built up.
[18]I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of
you. [19]Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five
words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten
thousand words in a tongue.
[20]Brothers, do not be children in your thinking. Be
infants in evil, but in your thinking be mature. [21]In the
Law it is written, "By people of strange tongues and by the
lips of foreigners will I speak to this people, and even
then they will not listen to me, says the Lord." [22]Thus
tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers,
while prophecy is a sign not for unbelievers but for
believers. [23]If, therefore, the whole church comes
together and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or
unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are out of
your minds? [24]But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or
outsider enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to
account by all, [25]the secrets of his heart are disclosed,
and so, falling on his face, he will worship God and
declare that God is really among you.
[26]What then, brothers? When you come together, each
one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an
interpretation. Let all things be done for building up.
[27]If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at
most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret.
[28]But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them
keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God.
[29]Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others
weigh what is said. [30]If a revelation is made to another
sitting there, let the first be silent. [31]For you can all
prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all be
encouraged, [32]and the spirits of prophets are subject to
prophets. [33]For God is not a God of confusion but of
peace.
As in all the churches of the saints, [34]the women
should keep silent in the churches. For they are not
permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law
also says. [35]If there is anything they desire to learn,
let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for
a woman to speak in church.
[36]Or was it from you that the word of God came? Or are
you the only ones it has reached? [37]If anyone thinks that
he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that
the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord.
[38]If anyone does not recognize this, he is not
recognized. [39]So, my brothers, earnestly desire to
prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. [40]But
all things should be done decently and in order. (ESV)
[28]Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the
flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to
care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own
blood. (ESV)
In relation to Kyle’s question about prophecy, I downloaded a recent sermon by Pete Greasley (a Sovereign Grace UK pastor) from http://www.christchurchnet.org. I would recommend it as a concise and helpful overview of prophecy in 1 Cor 141 Corinthians 14This text is from the ESV Bible. Visit www.esv.org to learn about the ESV.
, in addition to the resources you’ve mentioned above.
[14:1]Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual
gifts, especially that you may prophesy. [2]For one who
speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one
understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.
[3]On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to
people for their upbuilding and encouragement and
consolation. [4]The one who speaks in a tongue builds up
himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church.
[5]Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to
prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one
who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that
the church may be built up.
[6]Now, brothers, if I come to you speaking in tongues,
how will I benefit you unless I bring you some revelation
or knowledge or prophecy or teaching? [7]If even lifeless
instruments, such as the flute or the harp, do not give
distinct notes, how will anyone know what is played? [8]And
if the bugle gives an indistinct sound, who will get ready
for battle? [9]So with yourselves, if with your tongue you
utter speech that is not intelligible, how will anyone know
what is said? For you will be speaking into the air.
[10]There are doubtless many different languages in the
world, and none is without meaning, [11]but if I do not
know the meaning of the language, I will be a foreigner to
the speaker and the speaker a foreigner to me. [12]So with
yourselves, since you are eager for manifestations of the
Spirit, strive to excel in building up the church.
[13]Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray
for the power to interpret. [14]For if I pray in a tongue,
my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful. [15]What am I to
do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my
mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will
sing with my mind also. [16]Otherwise, if you give thanks
with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an
outsider say "Amen" to your thanksgiving when he does not
know what you are saying? [17]For you may be giving thanks
well enough, but the other person is not being built up.
[18]I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of
you. [19]Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five
words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten
thousand words in a tongue.
[20]Brothers, do not be children in your thinking. Be
infants in evil, but in your thinking be mature. [21]In the
Law it is written, "By people of strange tongues and by the
lips of foreigners will I speak to this people, and even
then they will not listen to me, says the Lord." [22]Thus
tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers,
while prophecy is a sign not for unbelievers but for
believers. [23]If, therefore, the whole church comes
together and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or
unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are out of
your minds? [24]But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or
outsider enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to
account by all, [25]the secrets of his heart are disclosed,
and so, falling on his face, he will worship God and
declare that God is really among you.
[26]What then, brothers? When you come together, each
one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an
interpretation. Let all things be done for building up.
[27]If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at
most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret.
[28]But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them
keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God.
[29]Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others
weigh what is said. [30]If a revelation is made to another
sitting there, let the first be silent. [31]For you can all
prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all be
encouraged, [32]and the spirits of prophets are subject to
prophets. [33]For God is not a God of confusion but of
peace.
As in all the churches of the saints, [34]the women
should keep silent in the churches. For they are not
permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law
also says. [35]If there is anything they desire to learn,
let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for
a woman to speak in church.
[36]Or was it from you that the word of God came? Or are
you the only ones it has reached? [37]If anyone thinks that
he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that
the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord.
[38]If anyone does not recognize this, he is not
recognized. [39]So, my brothers, earnestly desire to
prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. [40]But
all things should be done decently and in order. (ESV)
Comment by Kevin — October 28, 2007 @ 11:37 pm
Hi, Kevin. Thanks for adding your thoughts to the discussion. In order to clarify my concern, let me say that I agree with you and Bob that prophecy and other contributions to the assembled church have to be screened.
My question, I think, is whether PRE-screening those contributions undermines the apparently free and spontaneous nature of them, as described by Paul in 1 Corinthians 141 Corinthians 14This text is from the ESV Bible. Visit www.esv.org to learn about the ESV.
. The sifting process there seems to take place POST-contribution.
[14:1]Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual
gifts, especially that you may prophesy. [2]For one who
speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one
understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.
[3]On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to
people for their upbuilding and encouragement and
consolation. [4]The one who speaks in a tongue builds up
himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church.
[5]Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to
prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one
who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that
the church may be built up.
[6]Now, brothers, if I come to you speaking in tongues,
how will I benefit you unless I bring you some revelation
or knowledge or prophecy or teaching? [7]If even lifeless
instruments, such as the flute or the harp, do not give
distinct notes, how will anyone know what is played? [8]And
if the bugle gives an indistinct sound, who will get ready
for battle? [9]So with yourselves, if with your tongue you
utter speech that is not intelligible, how will anyone know
what is said? For you will be speaking into the air.
[10]There are doubtless many different languages in the
world, and none is without meaning, [11]but if I do not
know the meaning of the language, I will be a foreigner to
the speaker and the speaker a foreigner to me. [12]So with
yourselves, since you are eager for manifestations of the
Spirit, strive to excel in building up the church.
[13]Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray
for the power to interpret. [14]For if I pray in a tongue,
my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful. [15]What am I to
do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my
mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will
sing with my mind also. [16]Otherwise, if you give thanks
with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an
outsider say "Amen" to your thanksgiving when he does not
know what you are saying? [17]For you may be giving thanks
well enough, but the other person is not being built up.
[18]I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of
you. [19]Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five
words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten
thousand words in a tongue.
[20]Brothers, do not be children in your thinking. Be
infants in evil, but in your thinking be mature. [21]In the
Law it is written, "By people of strange tongues and by the
lips of foreigners will I speak to this people, and even
then they will not listen to me, says the Lord." [22]Thus
tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers,
while prophecy is a sign not for unbelievers but for
believers. [23]If, therefore, the whole church comes
together and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or
unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are out of
your minds? [24]But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or
outsider enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to
account by all, [25]the secrets of his heart are disclosed,
and so, falling on his face, he will worship God and
declare that God is really among you.
[26]What then, brothers? When you come together, each
one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an
interpretation. Let all things be done for building up.
[27]If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at
most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret.
[28]But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them
keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God.
[29]Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others
weigh what is said. [30]If a revelation is made to another
sitting there, let the first be silent. [31]For you can all
prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all be
encouraged, [32]and the spirits of prophets are subject to
prophets. [33]For God is not a God of confusion but of
peace.
As in all the churches of the saints, [34]the women
should keep silent in the churches. For they are not
permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law
also says. [35]If there is anything they desire to learn,
let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for
a woman to speak in church.
[36]Or was it from you that the word of God came? Or are
you the only ones it has reached? [37]If anyone thinks that
he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that
the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord.
[38]If anyone does not recognize this, he is not
recognized. [39]So, my brothers, earnestly desire to
prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. [40]But
all things should be done decently and in order. (ESV)
And again, I understand that doing it like that can be a lot messier and more difficult for the leadership, but I’m operating on the assumption that there is a reason (whether I understand it or not) that it was done that way.
Am I misunderstanding the text, or if I understand it correctly, am I misapplying it?
Comment by Barry — October 29, 2007 @ 12:00 pm
Barry,
Thanks for asking for clarification. I think you’re trying to make the 1 Cor. 141 Corinthians 14This text is from the ESV Bible. Visit www.esv.org to learn about the ESV.
passage say too much. It seems to me that Paul’s primary point is that prophetic words should be evaluated, not that they should be free and spontaneous. He was addressing a situation where numerous people were speaking at the same time, and the result was confusion. His instruction that the first prophet should stop speaking when a second person received a revelation was intended to bring order. Previously everyone would just speak at the same time. Therefore, I think the pre-screening of prophecies that are intended to serve the church is in line with the spirit of what Paul is saying here and in 1 Thess. 51 Thessalonians 5This text is from the ESV Bible. Visit www.esv.org to learn about the ESV.
. Of course, that doesn’t mean it’s wrong when churches allow people to speak out spontaneously. I simply wouldn’t interpret as the only way to communicate prophetic words in the church. Hope that’s helpful.
[14:1]Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual
gifts, especially that you may prophesy. [2]For one who
speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one
understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.
[3]On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to
people for their upbuilding and encouragement and
consolation. [4]The one who speaks in a tongue builds up
himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church.
[5]Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to
prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one
who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that
the church may be built up.
[6]Now, brothers, if I come to you speaking in tongues,
how will I benefit you unless I bring you some revelation
or knowledge or prophecy or teaching? [7]If even lifeless
instruments, such as the flute or the harp, do not give
distinct notes, how will anyone know what is played? [8]And
if the bugle gives an indistinct sound, who will get ready
for battle? [9]So with yourselves, if with your tongue you
utter speech that is not intelligible, how will anyone know
what is said? For you will be speaking into the air.
[10]There are doubtless many different languages in the
world, and none is without meaning, [11]but if I do not
know the meaning of the language, I will be a foreigner to
the speaker and the speaker a foreigner to me. [12]So with
yourselves, since you are eager for manifestations of the
Spirit, strive to excel in building up the church.
[13]Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray
for the power to interpret. [14]For if I pray in a tongue,
my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful. [15]What am I to
do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my
mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will
sing with my mind also. [16]Otherwise, if you give thanks
with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an
outsider say "Amen" to your thanksgiving when he does not
know what you are saying? [17]For you may be giving thanks
well enough, but the other person is not being built up.
[18]I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of
you. [19]Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five
words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten
thousand words in a tongue.
[20]Brothers, do not be children in your thinking. Be
infants in evil, but in your thinking be mature. [21]In the
Law it is written, "By people of strange tongues and by the
lips of foreigners will I speak to this people, and even
then they will not listen to me, says the Lord." [22]Thus
tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers,
while prophecy is a sign not for unbelievers but for
believers. [23]If, therefore, the whole church comes
together and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or
unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are out of
your minds? [24]But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or
outsider enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to
account by all, [25]the secrets of his heart are disclosed,
and so, falling on his face, he will worship God and
declare that God is really among you.
[26]What then, brothers? When you come together, each
one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an
interpretation. Let all things be done for building up.
[27]If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at
most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret.
[28]But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them
keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God.
[29]Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others
weigh what is said. [30]If a revelation is made to another
sitting there, let the first be silent. [31]For you can all
prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all be
encouraged, [32]and the spirits of prophets are subject to
prophets. [33]For God is not a God of confusion but of
peace.
As in all the churches of the saints, [34]the women
should keep silent in the churches. For they are not
permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law
also says. [35]If there is anything they desire to learn,
let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for
a woman to speak in church.
[36]Or was it from you that the word of God came? Or are
you the only ones it has reached? [37]If anyone thinks that
he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that
the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord.
[38]If anyone does not recognize this, he is not
recognized. [39]So, my brothers, earnestly desire to
prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. [40]But
all things should be done decently and in order. (ESV)
[5:1]Now concerning the times and the seasons, brothers,
you have no need to have anything written to you. [2]For
you yourselves are fully aware that the day of the Lord
will come like a thief in the night. [3]While people are
saying, "There is peace and security," then sudden
destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a
pregnant woman, and they will not escape. [4]But you are
not in darkness, brothers, for that day to surprise you
like a thief. [5]For you are all children of light,
children of the day. We are not of the night or of the
darkness. [6]So then let us not sleep, as others do, but
let us keep awake and be sober. [7]For those who sleep,
sleep at night, and those who get drunk, are drunk at
night. [8]But since we belong to the day, let us be sober,
having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and for a
helmet the hope of salvation. [9]For God has not destined
us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord
Jesus Christ, [10]who died for us so that whether we are
awake or asleep we might live with him. [11]Therefore
encourage one another and build one another up, just as you
are doing.
[12]We ask you, brothers, to respect those who labor
among you and are over you in the Lord and admonish you,
[13]and to esteem them very highly in love because of their
work. Be at peace among yourselves. [14]And we urge you,
brothers, admonish the idle, encourage the fainthearted,
help the weak, be patient with them all. [15]See that no
one repays anyone evil for evil, but always seek to do good
to one another and to everyone. [16]Rejoice always,
[17]pray without ceasing, [18]give thanks in all
circumstances; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus
for you. [19]Do not quench the Spirit. [20]Do not despise
prophecies, [21]but test everything; hold fast what is
good. [22]Abstain from every form of evil.
[23]Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you
completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be
kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[24]He who calls you is faithful; he will surely do it.
[25]Brothers, pray for us.
[26]Greet all the brothers with a holy kiss.
[27]I put you under oath before the Lord to have this
letter read to all the brothers.
[28]The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. (ESV)
Comment by Bob Kauflin — October 29, 2007 @ 8:43 pm