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	<title>Comments on: Worshiping the Triune God</title>
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	<link>http://www.worshipmatters.com/2007/09/worshiping-the-triune-god/</link>
	<description>Resources for Leading Worship from Bob Kauflin</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 10:04:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Bob Kauflin</title>
		<link>http://www.worshipmatters.com/2007/09/worshiping-the-triune-god/#comment-5566</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Kauflin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 16:50:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.worshipmatters.com/2007/08/worshiping-the-triune-god/#comment-5566</guid>
		<description>Dave,

Thanks for the info and encouragement. Yes, Enoch pointed out the same thing to me. In the West "Allah" obviously has a different connotation than in the East. Very helpful to know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave,</p>
<p>Thanks for the info and encouragement. Yes, Enoch pointed out the same thing to me. In the West &#8220;Allah&#8221; obviously has a different connotation than in the East. Very helpful to know.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Chang We Hao</title>
		<link>http://www.worshipmatters.com/2007/09/worshiping-the-triune-god/#comment-5554</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Chang We Hao</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 06:31:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.worshipmatters.com/2007/08/worshiping-the-triune-god/#comment-5554</guid>
		<description>Hi Bob, I've always enjoyed the theologically solid lyrics + contemporary music of PDI/Sovereign Grace... 

On worshipping Allah, do you know that Arab Christians and indigenous people groups in Asia actually do worship the triune God with the generic name "Allah"? And we had to contend with the authorities for the right to do so :)

You may like to check out the history of the term here:
http://krisispraxis.ath.cx/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Bob, I&#8217;ve always enjoyed the theologically solid lyrics + contemporary music of PDI/Sovereign Grace&#8230; </p>
<p>On worshipping Allah, do you know that Arab Christians and indigenous people groups in Asia actually do worship the triune God with the generic name &#8220;Allah&#8221;? And we had to contend with the authorities for the right to do so <img src='http://www.worshipmatters.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>You may like to check out the history of the term here:<br />
<a href="http://krisispraxis.ath.cx/" rel="nofollow">http://krisispraxis.ath.cx/</a></p>
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		<title>By: jordan fowler</title>
		<link>http://www.worshipmatters.com/2007/09/worshiping-the-triune-god/#comment-1870</link>
		<dc:creator>jordan fowler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2007 03:30:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.worshipmatters.com/2007/08/worshiping-the-triune-god/#comment-1870</guid>
		<description>Yes, when I visited AbbaLove Church in Jakarta, Indonesia it was interesting that Allah=God,Tuhan=Lord and Jesus=Jesus. Yet they were entirely Trinitarian in their theology.  They lean reformed Charismatic as well as do you guys.  Allah is just the Indonesian word for God and not, in their thought, considered a proper name referent to the God of Islam.

On to Trinitarian worship and balance.  I once had someone approach me and say we don't give equal time singing to the Holy Spirit.  I was launched back to Dr. Kirkpatrick's, my systematic prof, who said, "The Spirit is the shy member of the Trinity.  He always points to Jesus."  Of course, I shared the quote with the member.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, when I visited AbbaLove Church in Jakarta, Indonesia it was interesting that Allah=God,Tuhan=Lord and Jesus=Jesus. Yet they were entirely Trinitarian in their theology.  They lean reformed Charismatic as well as do you guys.  Allah is just the Indonesian word for God and not, in their thought, considered a proper name referent to the God of Islam.</p>
<p>On to Trinitarian worship and balance.  I once had someone approach me and say we don&#8217;t give equal time singing to the Holy Spirit.  I was launched back to Dr. Kirkpatrick&#8217;s, my systematic prof, who said, &#8220;The Spirit is the shy member of the Trinity.  He always points to Jesus.&#8221;  Of course, I shared the quote with the member.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Kauflin</title>
		<link>http://www.worshipmatters.com/2007/09/worshiping-the-triune-god/#comment-1808</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Kauflin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Sep 2007 10:39:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.worshipmatters.com/2007/08/worshiping-the-triune-god/#comment-1808</guid>
		<description>Enoch,

You wrote, "especially among the younger generations, the energy and volume of the music is paramount, rather than the theological soundness of content."

The same could be said of the United States. Or probably anywhere, for that matter. I'm hoping this blog, and others like it, can contribute in some way to reversing that trend. But change is most likely to come when pastors and worship leaders in local churches look more to Scripture than rock concerts for their model of corporate worship.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Enoch,</p>
<p>You wrote, &#8220;especially among the younger generations, the energy and volume of the music is paramount, rather than the theological soundness of content.&#8221;</p>
<p>The same could be said of the United States. Or probably anywhere, for that matter. I&#8217;m hoping this blog, and others like it, can contribute in some way to reversing that trend. But change is most likely to come when pastors and worship leaders in local churches look more to Scripture than rock concerts for their model of corporate worship.</p>
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		<title>By: Enoch Ho</title>
		<link>http://www.worshipmatters.com/2007/09/worshiping-the-triune-god/#comment-1806</link>
		<dc:creator>Enoch Ho</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Sep 2007 06:46:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.worshipmatters.com/2007/08/worshiping-the-triune-god/#comment-1806</guid>
		<description>Bob

   haha it might not. There are always plenty of cross-cultural issues in theology which sometimes touch on very sensitive matters.

   Unfortunately sometimes these cross-cultural issues even permeate into matters of worship (how we should worship, what instruments we are allowed and not allowed to use) and that sometimes creates a schism between Christians and even churches, especially in the east where sometimes being too "western" is frowned upon.

   One of the main worries is that sometimes the songs we use here may present wrong or shaky theology, which is a worry because especially among the younger generations, the energy and volume of the music is paramount, rather than the theological soundness of content.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bob</p>
<p>   haha it might not. There are always plenty of cross-cultural issues in theology which sometimes touch on very sensitive matters.</p>
<p>   Unfortunately sometimes these cross-cultural issues even permeate into matters of worship (how we should worship, what instruments we are allowed and not allowed to use) and that sometimes creates a schism between Christians and even churches, especially in the east where sometimes being too &#8220;western&#8221; is frowned upon.</p>
<p>   One of the main worries is that sometimes the songs we use here may present wrong or shaky theology, which is a worry because especially among the younger generations, the energy and volume of the music is paramount, rather than the theological soundness of content.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Kauflin</title>
		<link>http://www.worshipmatters.com/2007/09/worshiping-the-triune-god/#comment-1804</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Kauflin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Sep 2007 00:46:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.worshipmatters.com/2007/08/worshiping-the-triune-god/#comment-1804</guid>
		<description>Ryan,

Let me start by saying that your last line was very encouraging.

Is "Unitarian" the word you want to use? Unitarians typically don't believe in the deity of Christ. There are groups like Phillips, Craig, and Dean who are Oneness Pentecostals. They teach a form of modalism, that is, the teaching that God has manifested himself to us in three different ways (Father, Son, and Spirit). 

In any case, I'll use any song that proclaims biblical truth clearly unless I think the negative associations, personally or corporately, make it too distracting to use it. So, I'd use a song that Phillips, Craig, and Dean sing, despite their errant theology. I don't think most people in my church would associate a particular song with the group, since I don't believe they write their own music. And even if people did make a connection, most of them wouldn't know that PC&#038;D doesn't believe in the Trinity.

I'm more concerned about doing songs from churches or ministries that put out a lot of music but tend to be shaky or confusing in their theology. In that case, singing one of their songs might lead someone to buy more of the group's music or being exposed to their theology.

Bottom line, if I think singing a song has a strong potential of exposing people to bad doctrine through association, I won't use it. But if we're faithfully proclaiming God's Word and teaching people to be discerning, the chances of that happening are minimized.  

Is that helpful? Feel free to follow up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ryan,</p>
<p>Let me start by saying that your last line was very encouraging.</p>
<p>Is &#8220;Unitarian&#8221; the word you want to use? Unitarians typically don&#8217;t believe in the deity of Christ. There are groups like Phillips, Craig, and Dean who are Oneness Pentecostals. They teach a form of modalism, that is, the teaching that God has manifested himself to us in three different ways (Father, Son, and Spirit). </p>
<p>In any case, I&#8217;ll use any song that proclaims biblical truth clearly unless I think the negative associations, personally or corporately, make it too distracting to use it. So, I&#8217;d use a song that Phillips, Craig, and Dean sing, despite their errant theology. I don&#8217;t think most people in my church would associate a particular song with the group, since I don&#8217;t believe they write their own music. And even if people did make a connection, most of them wouldn&#8217;t know that PC&#038;D doesn&#8217;t believe in the Trinity.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m more concerned about doing songs from churches or ministries that put out a lot of music but tend to be shaky or confusing in their theology. In that case, singing one of their songs might lead someone to buy more of the group&#8217;s music or being exposed to their theology.</p>
<p>Bottom line, if I think singing a song has a strong potential of exposing people to bad doctrine through association, I won&#8217;t use it. But if we&#8217;re faithfully proclaiming God&#8217;s Word and teaching people to be discerning, the chances of that happening are minimized.  </p>
<p>Is that helpful? Feel free to follow up.</p>
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		<title>By: RedHawk</title>
		<link>http://www.worshipmatters.com/2007/09/worshiping-the-triune-god/#comment-1802</link>
		<dc:creator>RedHawk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 21:59:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.worshipmatters.com/2007/08/worshiping-the-triune-god/#comment-1802</guid>
		<description>Bob
As a worship leader, I feel it is very important to know the theological nature of the songwriters, or performers of the songs you are doing in a worship setting.  This topic of the Trinity brings it to light since there are many writers and performers in popular Christian music that are of Unitarian influence, yet their songs and music are prevelant within worship circles.  Or, they may not have written a song, yet they endorse it.  The songs sound perfectly legitimate, yet they are unashamedly wrong in their conception, or their endorsement.  
Pure practical question then:  As a worship leader, how, or where, or can you at all, draw the line in using songs that are written by or endorsed by a Unitarian driven mindset in their conception, yet are "clean enough" or vague enough to be considered "Trinitarian" because they single out a "part" or parts of the Trinity?  I ask this because there are some songs we do in our church that are "covered" by a few mainstream Christian groups, yet the groups have publicly slanted strongly toward a Unitarian view in recent years.

Thank You for your passion and your voice.  It has helped me be a student of God

Ryan Hawk</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bob<br />
As a worship leader, I feel it is very important to know the theological nature of the songwriters, or performers of the songs you are doing in a worship setting.  This topic of the Trinity brings it to light since there are many writers and performers in popular Christian music that are of Unitarian influence, yet their songs and music are prevelant within worship circles.  Or, they may not have written a song, yet they endorse it.  The songs sound perfectly legitimate, yet they are unashamedly wrong in their conception, or their endorsement.<br />
Pure practical question then:  As a worship leader, how, or where, or can you at all, draw the line in using songs that are written by or endorsed by a Unitarian driven mindset in their conception, yet are &#8220;clean enough&#8221; or vague enough to be considered &#8220;Trinitarian&#8221; because they single out a &#8220;part&#8221; or parts of the Trinity?  I ask this because there are some songs we do in our church that are &#8220;covered&#8221; by a few mainstream Christian groups, yet the groups have publicly slanted strongly toward a Unitarian view in recent years.</p>
<p>Thank You for your passion and your voice.  It has helped me be a student of God</p>
<p>Ryan Hawk</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Kauflin</title>
		<link>http://www.worshipmatters.com/2007/09/worshiping-the-triune-god/#comment-1792</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Kauflin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 11:01:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.worshipmatters.com/2007/08/worshiping-the-triune-god/#comment-1792</guid>
		<description>Enoch,

That's fascinating. So I guess it's safe to assume that this post won't translate well into some languages...

Bob</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Enoch,</p>
<p>That&#8217;s fascinating. So I guess it&#8217;s safe to assume that this post won&#8217;t translate well into some languages&#8230;</p>
<p>Bob</p>
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		<title>By: Trillia</title>
		<link>http://www.worshipmatters.com/2007/09/worshiping-the-triune-god/#comment-1791</link>
		<dc:creator>Trillia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 10:59:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.worshipmatters.com/2007/08/worshiping-the-triune-god/#comment-1791</guid>
		<description>I know folks usually don't comment on others comments here but I was so encouraged to read Gabriel's! The gospel is far reaching to every tribe, nation and tongue. It really builds my faith to read that they sang Jesus, Thank you in French! As far as the post, thanks Bob for sharing the gospel! It was a very encouraging post and such a sweet reminder of how amazing it really is that sinners like me have a relationship with God, the Son and the Holy Spirit! On a personal note, thank you for posting your daughters website (Perceive Design) on your blog. Kerrin and Megan have been working hard on some design projects for me. They are a blessing!

In Him,

Trill.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know folks usually don&#8217;t comment on others comments here but I was so encouraged to read Gabriel&#8217;s! The gospel is far reaching to every tribe, nation and tongue. It really builds my faith to read that they sang Jesus, Thank you in French! As far as the post, thanks Bob for sharing the gospel! It was a very encouraging post and such a sweet reminder of how amazing it really is that sinners like me have a relationship with God, the Son and the Holy Spirit! On a personal note, thank you for posting your daughters website (Perceive Design) on your blog. Kerrin and Megan have been working hard on some design projects for me. They are a blessing!</p>
<p>In Him,</p>
<p>Trill.</p>
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		<title>By: Enoch Ho</title>
		<link>http://www.worshipmatters.com/2007/09/worshiping-the-triune-god/#comment-1790</link>
		<dc:creator>Enoch Ho</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 06:00:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.worshipmatters.com/2007/08/worshiping-the-triune-god/#comment-1790</guid>
		<description>just a quick note, although this may not be wholly relevant to this topic. the name Allah is used as the name for God in the Indonesian and Malay Bibles, as it is the literal translation for those languages. Those who read the Bible in those languages do understand and appreciate the proper meaning of that word in this context.

keep up the good work, Bob! I appreciate your ministry and all that you do for the cause of the Gospel</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>just a quick note, although this may not be wholly relevant to this topic. the name Allah is used as the name for God in the Indonesian and Malay Bibles, as it is the literal translation for those languages. Those who read the Bible in those languages do understand and appreciate the proper meaning of that word in this context.</p>
<p>keep up the good work, Bob! I appreciate your ministry and all that you do for the cause of the Gospel</p>
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