Aug17
Should We Use Secular Songs on Sundays?
Matt sent in this question:
I recently came across a message board where folks were discussing secular songs that could be done to make “seekers” feel more comfortable at church. Some folks mentioned that they had been to church’s where song such as: “She Will be Loved” by Maroon 5, “Your Body is a Wonderland” by John Mayer (that Sunday’s service was about sexuality), lots of U2, etc. I’m really interested to hear your thoughts about doing songs like these. Should we seek to evangelize during our times of worshiping God through singing corporately?
There are three ways I want to respond to Matt’s question.
First, the idea that we should make “seekers” feel more comfortable in church begs for further clarification. We should make sure that unbelievers can understand what’s going on in our meetings, and that we’re not doing anything to make them feel unwelcome. But it’s not our responsibility to make sure they’re “comfortable.” The church is different from the world. We’ve gathered to build each other up by rehearsing and celebrating the Gospel, calling to mind God’s covenant promises, confess our sins, exercise spiritual gifts, and much more. “To each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good” ( 1 Cor. 12:7). I wouldn’t expect someone who doesn’t know the Savior to be totally comfortable in that setting. Our primary goal is to make sure that unbelievers have the opportunity to encounter in some way the grace and truth of God revealed in Jesus Christ, expressed through his church.
Second, singing/playing popular secular songs on Sunday mornings can have a number of effects, some good, some not so good. What are people hearing as these songs are being played? Are they thinking, “Wow, these Christians really relate to me?” Or are they thinking, “Gee, I never knew Christians listen to the same kind of music I do. We’re really not that different!” Or are they thinking, “Why are these Christians trying to act so much like me? I was hoping they could provide some answers to my problems.” Or maybe, “Why do I come to church to hear second-rate versions of songs I listen to? Why don’t they sing about something has changed their lives, rather than something I already know?” Hard to say. I certainly have no idea why someone would sing John Mayer’s “Your Body is a Wonderland” on a Sunday morning. Here’s a portion:
We got the afternoon, you got this room for two
One thing I’ve left to do, discover me discovering you
And if you want love we’ll make it
Swim in a deep sea of blankets
Take all your big plans and break ‘em
This is bound to be awhile
Your body is a wonderland
Your body is a wonder (I’ll use my hands)
Your body is a wonderland
If reading those words seems awkward here, imagine what it would sound like if they’re sung when the church of Jesus Christ gathers. Sexuality is a gift from God to be celebrated within the covenant of marriage. “Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the marriage bed be undefiled” ( Heb. 13:4). This song doesn’t accomplish those goals. There’s no sense that this is a husband singing to his wife, and
even if it was, it wouldn’t be appropriate for a multiple generation congregation. Also, prior associations people can have with the song make it even problematic. Seems like it would be much better to simply reference the words and comment on them.
Third, Matt asks if we should seek to evangelize non-Christians during our times of corporate worship. Absolutely. Is playing songs by U2 or other popular artists the best way to do that? No. Evangelism involves proclaiming the gospel - the good news that Christ died in our place for our sins to reconcile us to God. Evangelism should be the natural overflow of a group of Christians who are passionately, clearly, and compellingly extolling the greatness of God and his mercy in Jesus Christ - not trying to sound like the world. That doesn’t mean we can never use a popular song to make a specific point in a meeting. Or that it isn’t wise at times to reference what the world is singing. But there are dangers in making singing secular songs on a Sunday morning a regular practice. Songs speak not only through their lyrics but through the associations people make with them. We should be very intentional about the use of popular songs, and our motive should be to communicate truth, not simply to be “relevant” or attract more people. If we’re not careful, the means we use to draw others will hinder them from hearing the very message that could set them free.
For more on this topic, download the following free message from the Sovereign Grace site:
Choosing Songs Wisely by Bob Kauflin
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I agree that one of the main problems with the proposal is the goal to make “seekers more comfortable.” But I wonder what changes when that’s not the goal. I can see other reasons to utilize, or reference, a “secular” song. In my personal experience, I used a little-known Jonatha Brooke song “Because I Told You So” to talk about the difficulty of feeling loved and accepting the idea that we’re loved, even by the most significant people in our lives, and how that difficulty is similar to the difficulty of feeling loved by God. I can see how some of the lyrics could be confused if not given the context (people thinking the song is directly about God’s love for people, rather than about a human relationship), but that doesn’t seem ultimately problematic.
Comment by Tim Sharpe — August 17, 2007 @ 1:36 pm
I personally have used “secular” songs in a “worship service” but have been very selective in them and how I plan on using them. I see them, not as an opportunity to be cool, or to relate and be relevant to non-Christians (although that can happen), I treat them in the same manner that a pastor preaching would with a story. It is an analogy, or an illustration of a point. And with music can come different emotional responses that may not come out in telling a story. I think when that secular music is used, with that idea in mind, and the lyrics are not against God, the musicians are right in their motives, that at that time that song has transcended its secularism and has become, in that moment and at that time, sacred. Given for the glory of God.
I do think that churches can, and do use secular music in services though, and I am not always convinced it is for a greater point than being cool. Which is sad.
That is what I feel at least.
Comment by Matt Singleterry — August 17, 2007 @ 2:07 pm
Bob, what a wonderful, Gospel-focused answer. We are called to proclaim the most glorious message of all time.
Comment by matthewsmith — August 17, 2007 @ 3:02 pm
This is so helpful. Thank you.
I do think secular music (or more frequently) secular lyrics can be a powerful illustration of the world-view of a culture.
It just seems as though there must be a crystal clear distinction between what we are presenting to illustrate the culture we live in and what we are doing as a part of worship. As self-evident as that might seem to some of us it is anything but self-evident in our culture. The very heart of post-modernism is the marginalizing of objective truth. To someone coming from that context it would seem completely reasonable to think worship using lyrics completely divorced from truth are just as valid as expressions of worship as the Bible. It seems to me our calling in such a context is to help people revel in the distinctiveness of real truth, rather than in any way blur the lines further.
Comment by Allan — August 17, 2007 @ 5:22 pm
So good, thank you!
Comment by AB — August 17, 2007 @ 6:04 pm
Bravo, Bob! That is precisely the answer I would have given Matt. I loved the one point you made concerning what might go through an unbeliever’s head if he heard secular songs in a church service. None of them are good or very Christ exalting. I think the counsel you have given here is wise.
Comment by Josh H. — August 17, 2007 @ 11:43 pm
Hi Bob, I liked the way you addressed that question, it was very well balanced. Good answer!
I once did ‘There is a Green Hill Far Away’ to the tune of ‘House of The Rising Sun’. It was an informal event, nevertheless some people were deeply offended. And come to think about it, I don’t think anyone actually told me they liked it - Oops!
More lately, I adapted Neil Diamond’s ‘I’m a Believer’, using it as a “shake the sleep off song”, at the beginning of a Sunday Morning Worship set. I adapted the words to be more of a testimony. It’ll never carry the weight of songs like Amazing Grace, but I have had good reports and even requests for it.
However, all that said, while I embrace the contemporary sound in worship, I do get uncomfortable with the term ‘Seeker Friendly’. To me it speaks of compromise with the world, and as you mentioned, let the seeker see the difference. My veiwpoint is - Make the service ‘God Friendly’, let’s welcome Him into our meetings, let’s praise and exalt Him and extol His virtues. Then when the unsaved come into our meetings, His presence will be enough to minister to the seeker. And as you rightly said, not forgetting to explain why we worship the way we do.
Comment by Aled Williams — August 18, 2007 @ 10:38 am
Amen,amen,amen!!!! Thanks, Bob, for this thoughtful, insightful, biblical response.
Comment by Lisa — August 18, 2007 @ 11:06 am
Agreed. What we win them with, is what we win them to. Let the power of the Gospel and the wooing of the Spirit be the draw - we are noting making converts - its not enough to fill our pews with people who like the music we play - we are called to make disciples. Before I end - I also believe that the sovereign Spirit of God can call for the use of unorthodox methods specifically. Its about obedience and discernment… even when its breaking a few rules. So they are exceptions… but they are rare - by definition.
Comment by Batsirai Chada — August 18, 2007 @ 10:54 pm
It really depends on the song and whether or not it is a song for worship or for use in teaching. “The Cat’s in the Cradle” would be appropriate in combination with a message on parenting. The background of the song is also important to me. I wouldn’t enjoy singing “My Sweet Lord” because I know that George Harrison was refering to Krishna and not to Jesus. There was a movement in church Christmas musicals a few years ago to include secular Christmas songs. I thought it worked in some of the musicals but didn’t in others. When it comes to worship services I agree that it should be God friendly and for believers. I think the greatest invention for carnal Christians was the seeker sensitive, conviction free service. Jesus, bleeding and naked on a cross is not exactly seeker sensitive, but it saved my wretched soul.
Comment by Jerry Bradley — August 19, 2007 @ 9:56 pm
I’m also very conscious that, like particular smells, songs can stir up vivid memories and past experiences. Our flesh is constantly at war within us to distract and pull our attention off of Christ. I know that I connect songs with specific times, experiences and people in my past. All it takes is to hear a particular melody and I’m instantly transported back to that point in my life. While this could be a good thing, there are many situations that I don’t want to recall, especially as the church is gathered worship the Lord. If the mind is the watchman of the soul, then lets fill it with things that draw our attention to the Savior. “Finally brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.”
Comment by Aaron Campbell — August 20, 2007 @ 6:48 am
Excellent post.
Comment by Albert — August 20, 2007 @ 12:21 pm
Great Post…
I agree that our goal as a church in a church service is not to make the seeker comfortable, but to bring glory to God…
I have seen Lifehouse’s ‘Everything’ sung as a special song.. to great effect going w/ the message.
Also, during praise & worship, we have sung U2’s ‘Gloria’ and ‘40′ on occasion…
But the goal is always to maximize our glorification of God, not making people comfortable.
Thanks for the great post.
Comment by Rob Newton — August 21, 2007 @ 4:28 pm
When God has given us such gifted writers and worship leaders such as Bob and others at Sovereign Grace, as well as the many other solid, committed Christ-centered worship leaders and composers, why would we possibly need to stoop to using music of those who did not write their music out of love for the Savior. Thank you Bob.
Comment by Amy — August 25, 2007 @ 11:11 pm
I highly recommend reading Bob DeWay’s book, “Redefining Christianity”.
Comment by Ike — August 26, 2007 @ 3:51 pm
Ike,
Since no one knows who you are, it would be helpful to give us a few reasons as to why you think reading “Redefining Christianity” would be a good idea.
Thanks!
Comment by Bob Kauflin — August 27, 2007 @ 11:37 pm
Bob, I absolutely agree with your answer and appreciate the consistency with which you address these types of questions.
In reference to the other commenters. I don’t want to sound like a jerk here, but I see no reason whatsoever to sing a secular song in a CORPORATE WORSHIP service. I am really discourage by how many posted comments about the secular music they used in church. I am not opposed to secular music as a whole. I listen to it frequently, but what can a lost man who cannot understand the things of God add to a service that’s intent should be to edify believers and exalt Christ. How does waking someone up with “I’m a believer” exalt Christ? I would say it would be impossible to find someone who associates that song with worship. Maybe nostalgia and emotion, but shouldn’t we be directing emotion by pointing people to the Cross instead of just feeding nostalgia?
Also, I don’t want to hear a second rate version of a song by Maroon Five or U2.
Comment by Scott Hill — August 28, 2007 @ 6:38 pm
Are you playing those “Beatles” songs to your “rap” music again?!
Seriously though – thanks for that great insight, Dr. Bob. While I agree with just about everything you posted and certainly I believe you spoke to the heart of the matter re: Matt’s question, I believe there’s an underlying question before we can even answer his original one: what qualifies as sacred vs. secular, or is there even a distinction?
For the sake of brevity, I’ll suggest we presuppose that there is validity to the terms sacred and secular. If there’s pushback on that, you can always talk about it in another post. That being said, I think it’s helpful to define these terms in any discussion using them as my connotation of sacred may be very different than another person’s.
One example which I can look back on now as fairly amusing is the song, “Above All.” There was a time, at least in this humble, less big-brainy music guy’s life, where I and many of my now-repentant compatriots gleefully cheered our congregations on in bouncing this particular tune off the rafters. I can still remember when an almost palpable shadow fell over the Reformed (note the big R) community as the little seminarian pointed and cried, “The emperor has no theological underpinnings in the last sentence of the chorus!!!” Until then, I had held to the belief that old choruses never die, they just fade away… no longer. What a strange, slow-motion-train-wreck thing to behold.
All joking aside, I no longer use the song in worship because it doesn’t meet the standard I consider to be “sacred.” Even though 90%+ of the song is good, the remaining sentence, which is really the cornerstone of the lyrics, points us in what could too easily be construed as a wrong direction.
On the flip side, some of us (I won’t mention any bloggers’ names… cough) are a bit guilty of beating the “U2 ain’t worship” drum. And I don’t disagree. However, I would just as quickly follow up with the belief that much of what we hear on Christian radio doesn’t fall in the “sacred” category for me either. I love living in Atlanta for many reasons, one being they’ve got some excellent gospel stations to listen to. Unfortunately, some of those songs are rife with wrong theology. In addition, some of the CCM I manage to expose myself to is so poorly, vaguely worded, that it frankly wouldn’t surprise me if Jars Of Clay or Aerosmith wrote it.
In fact, I’d venture to say there are some Aerosmith songs that would work better (if you could pull them out of the context they’re mired in) as worship songs than some of the contemporary “Christian” singer/songwriters handiwork being doled out on the airwaves. Who can say what Steven Tyler was “really” trying to communicate when he wrote “Amazing” or “Living On The Edge?” Know who wrote these lyrics?
Now I’m suspended between my darkest fears and dearest hope
Yes I’ve been walking, now I’m hanging from a dead man’s rope
With Hell below me, and Heaven in the sky above
I’ve been walking, I’ve been walking away from Jesus’ love
The shadows fall around my bed
When the hand of an angel,
The hand of an angel is reaching down above my head
All this wandering has led me to this place
Inside the well of my memory, sweet rain of forgiveness
Now I’m walking in his grace
I’m walking in his footsteps
Walking in his footsteps,
Walking in his footsteps
Give up? That’d be Sting. Or how about my personal favorite: one of the more morbid heavy-metal folksingers to come our way, Warren Zevon, claimed before he died to have been a Christian most of his life. Now I’m not about to play Excitable Boy for the offertory. But I hope this much-lengthier-than-intended comment serves the point I was trying to make, which is this: as we seek to separate the musical sheep from the goats, let’s try to know with greater clarity what sheep look and smell like (well, maybe skip the smell… trust me, you don’t want to know).
Eric Barnhart
Atlanta, GA
Comment by Eric Barnhart — August 28, 2007 @ 11:07 pm
I dont think using a secular song for the actual “worship” time is not something I would do in my own church. I would include it sometime during the service though. Having a popular song during your service in my opinion could be very beneficial to people and will help them connect with their church. Maybe the people will come back just becasue of that song.. but I know it is bound to step on someones toes. So I do think it can work, but it has to be done in the right congregation and in the right setting.
Comment by Scott Coleman — November 14, 2007 @ 2:42 pm
An excellent word on such a sensitive issue. The church where I formerly led worship in Charlotte, NC was and is a church that chose to incorporate secular tunes in the worship (most of you would know the name if I said it). But after awhile I began asking those same types of questions. Questions like, “What are the connotations that accompany this song in the minds of my listeners?” It wasn’t until a man in my church, a baby Christian, asked me my opinion on it that I began to soul-search myself. In a completely vulnerable moment, he confessed to me how his hearing a Red Hot Chili Peppers song one Sunday completely cut off any chance of his ability to worship that day. As images from the band’s popular music video played over and over again in his mind, the opportunity for genuine worship to take place was stifled in his heart. Sure, maybe there were a few seekers who connected with it. But for my friend who was struggling in his faith to walk with Christ in a more intimate way, the struggle was neither helped nor lightened that day. As soon as he said that, I realized the importance of Jesus’ words in Matthew 18:6Matthew 18:6This text is from the ESV Bible. Visit www.esv.org to learn about the ESV.
, “But whoever causes the downfall of one of these little ones who believe in Me—it would be better for him if a heavy millstone were hung around his neck and he were drowned in the depths of the sea!”
[6]but whoever causes one of these little ones who
believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a
great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned
in the depth of the sea. (ESV)
In that moment, I realized that the Atlantic Ocean and a boulder around my neck would have been better for me.
Comment by Josh Via — November 19, 2007 @ 12:10 pm
I think that by adding secular songs to a worship service is a cheap and easy way of becoming all things to all people. Yes, worship service should be seeker friendly but that doesn’t mean playing familiar secular songs. I appreciate your comments and views on this topic. It’s important to remember that in our worship music we should be focused on praising God and not individuals.
Comment by Kasey G. — December 4, 2007 @ 2:43 am
We once spun out a version of “Can’t you see” what was that, a Marshal Tucker Band song, but it was What my Jesus is doin’ for me. It was after Saturday night service, and people were just up front and worshiping after the close of service. At that point, no one minded, but on a Sunday morning, as the first song, I’m not sure.
I’ve also sang Amazing Grace to the tune of House of the Rising Sun a couple times at karaoke, nothing like bringing Jesus into a bar on a friday night.
Comment by Phil DeLoriea — December 4, 2007 @ 7:01 pm
I would agree with Mr. Kauflin that the Gospel must be the center of our worship service. This does not mean that we cannot focus on other aspects of God, but the Gospel is the basis of what Christianity is about. I don’t feel that we are supposed to make non-Christians “comfortable,” but rather welcome. They should not feel like they do not belong. The Gospel message was for everyone, not those who already believe. If the Gospel is the center of our worhsip service, then we essentially have the evangelistic aspects of the service covered.
Comment by Nick — December 7, 2007 @ 12:05 pm
i do think that secular songs sometimes have an impact on the society in which the gospel is ministering to, so we must address them, but i dont necessarily think that (in the worship format) secular songs should be used; unless they are obviously highly influenced by Christianity. So secular songs have their place, but i dont think they should be used in any way as worship songs. but maybe in the background of a video shown in service or something of that type, but nothing so upfront that they take away from the real meaning of the meeting.
-glenn
Comment by glenn — December 7, 2007 @ 1:45 pm
I appreciate Eric’s comparison of many modern Christian artists’ lyrics with those of secular musicians. Does anyone else think some of these Christians are speaking to their girlfriend rather than to God? And beyond the “who” of our worship, we must carefully examine the “why”. Are we meeting to for a time of personal worship so I can feel better, so I can tell God what I feel? Or is our corporate worship meant to edify the body and to lift one another up. Bob nicely addresses this issue in his recent post “Addressing One Another in Psalms, Hymns, and Spiritual Songs,” and I must agree with the focus our Christian worship needs to convey: the gospel message presented to praise God and offer spirit-filled worship. Secular songs seem to invoke emotion-filled “worship” and nothing more.
Comment by Marisha — December 8, 2007 @ 11:06 am
I think a drastic was used in the example of a secular song being sang on Sunday. If it were a song like that, then I would say that was not appropriate but if we are still careful with the secular songs we use, I think it can be really powerful. My church uses secular songs often. The latest one I can think of is “Standing Outside the Fire” by Garth Brooks. It was one of the most powerful services I have ever been to! The point of the message was the key part of the song “Life is not tried it is merely survived if you’re standing outside the fire.” Just that line, I am sure you can see the significance and power. I have not forgot that service because of that song and when I hear it on the radio, it takes me back to that message. I think we need to be wise with what songs we choose, but to just say secular is bad, I think is inaccurate.
Comment by Amber — December 13, 2007 @ 9:13 pm
I really like the way that you answered this question in 3 parts I agree with the second part when you are talking about all the different questions. We as Christians are called to be aliens and strangers in the world and those that don’t believe in God should be different then us, I think that some secular music can be tolerated however, but John Mayer’s song would not be one of them. We should try and make them feel welcome and I agree with you in that aspect, but music can definitely have a positive affect on people.
Comment by Jen McGauley — December 14, 2007 @ 7:28 pm
This seems like a very debatable and intersting topic, and I was actually shocked to find that some of those songs were being played during worship on Sundays. Do you think God would really be glorfied with those lyrics from John Mayer? I think not, and I also agree that it’s not up to us to make people comfortable(as harsh as that may sound). We want unbelievers to know that the one true God of the Universe loves them, not that His loves is watered down to make guests and others feel more at peace? I don’t think that is the answer at all, people are constantly wondering what they’re purpose is in this life and if what they’re doing here on Earth is worth anything, always having questions. That is what the church should be all about, drawing others together and showing the love of Christ how it should be showed, not through secular music. My view could be argued but I’m pretty conservative about it all anyway.
Comment by Michael Otto — December 19, 2007 @ 1:26 pm
Thought i’d post a quote i found within a nifty ministry site’s material by A.W. Tozer:
“It is not what a man does that determines whether his work is sacred or secular, it is why he does it.”
Merry Christmas!
Comment by Eric Barnhart — December 23, 2007 @ 1:22 am
We need to be careful about the reasons we do music in church. I for one don’t want to bring the world into the church - I thought we were to go in to the world! If I’m trying to do music to be relevant, then who am I doing this for - me or Him? We are to be in the world but not of the world. Our music for worship is to be for God and God alone.
Comment by joel — January 1, 2008 @ 11:23 am
Your three ways of addressing Matt’s question is biblically well done. On a Sunday morning, we should be more concerned about making sure unbelievers have the chance to see the see the truth and mercy God reveals through Jesus and us rather than making sure we entertain them with music we think they admire. I guess if a secular song can help an individual see how truly good God is and stirs a hunger in their soul to do something about it, then great. Perhaps using a secular song on a Sunday morning is effective. But the questions that are posed regarding what an unbeliever thinks when hearing a familiar secular song makes the utilizing of that song for the service not so effective. “Gee, I never knew Christians listen to the same kind of music I do. We’re really not that different!” Or, “Why are these Christians trying to act so much like me? I was hoping they could provide some answers to my problems.” Rather than playing a secular song, it would probably be more effective to reference the words and comment on them.
Comment by Benjamin — January 27, 2008 @ 12:21 pm
I guess that my biggest concerns would be this: there is no such thing as a “seeker” ( Rom 3:11Romans 3:11This text is from the ESV Bible. Visit www.esv.org to learn about the ESV.
) so we can’t cater to them, and secondly, worship is designed to be to GOD’s taste not anyone elses whether it is on Sunday morning or Tuesday afternoon, and He is not silent about how to worship Him. The Church is in grave error when she believes that she determines what is acceptable in worship and turns her back on the affirmation “Sola Scriptura” - Scripture Alone dictates life, faith, and practice in the Church. The first two commandments define worship: worship the right God, and worship Him in the right way… secular songs don’t belong in worship services.
[11]no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
Comment by Justin Bruce — January 30, 2008 @ 7:16 pm
Justin- great post, and it also raises other Q’s, like “how can we know what forms of worship are acceptable to God in the Church?”, or, “if there is a worship style that is not acceptable to God what would it look like?”. Or is there any great importance attached to what outward forms our inward expressions are taking?
What I mean is this: The main issue of this thread (discussing the use of the secular in the context of the sacred) probably has at its root the underlying question of “what is the worship service anyway?” And before we can arrive at any meaningful conclusion to the former, we must properly understand the answer(s) to the latter.
So, if it can be determined what is actually happening in a New Covenant worship service, then reaching a reasonable and God-honoring conclusion to this and many other questions will be more focused towards that purpose, and the conclusions will be much more satisfying.
Just for some context, let me just say that I spent years (10)leading worship in a fairly charismatic Church and years (9)in a SGBC Church, and am now a pastor in a reformed congregation. I was also involved with CCM, albeit in the hard rock/metal/funk ghetto!
Comment by Tim Bushong — February 5, 2008 @ 8:12 am
This is a very interesting topic. While I agree for the most part that secular music should not be used in a worship gathering, I think some rare exceptions can be made. Some bands like Lifehouse I would not entirely consider secular. They bagan leading worship at the Malibu Vineyard and their music is still considered somewhat Christian. I agree that the church should not be seeker-sensitive in one sense bcause It should be more sensitive to biblical commands concerning worship and to the Holy Spirit. However, there is a sense I think where there’s this whole bit about mercy and justice and I think part of that is trying to keep ourselves from having a condescending demeanor when it comes to dealing with people who are lost. That’s what Jesus did. He taught people what was right and wrong and He also had sinners for friends. I guess what I’m trying to say is that maybe in those rare instances where we find a song that we feel comfortable using in a corporate gathering. I will give and example. there is a worship artist that I listen to who has written a couple of somewhat popular worship songs. Back in the early 90s, after he had been singing for a while, he went out on his wife. He has since repented and is singing and writing songs again. Knowing this and choosing a song written by him, I think is one way of saying that we are able to look past someone’s faults and see what God sees. Anyway, I’m sure there are alot more examples than that, but I just wanted to say that.
Comment by Jared — March 1, 2008 @ 3:24 am
You know, this is very interesting. And I whole-heartedly believe that secular music should NOT be used during services. I think you’ve covered all of the reasons why, and I agree with you. I do think however, that secular music can be good to use in a small group/Sunday school setting. I’ve used it with a class of high-schoolers for the purpose of playing it alongside Christian music and paralleling worldly values with those we are called as Christians to hold.
Comment by Tiffany — March 5, 2008 @ 10:23 pm
I do think however, that secular music can be good to use in a small group/Sunday school setting. I’ve used it with a class of high-schoolers for the purpose of playing it alongside Christian music and paralleling worldly values with those we are called as Christians to hold.
Comment by Tiffany — March 5, 2008 @ 10:23 pm
Tiffany, I teach youth Grade 6-9 and I use that same idea about once a month. Can you tell me names of songs you have used?
Comment by Ellen — March 29, 2008 @ 6:04 pm
I think that the original poster Bob is a silly man. It is as though someone asked if it is appropriate to show clips of films during a church service and Bob cited a porno film, ofcourse you shouldn’t glorify sex outside of marriage, but look at Hamburg Song by Keane:
I don’t wanna be adored
Don’t wanna be first in line
Or make myself heard
I’d like to bring a little light
To shine a light on your life
To make you feel loved
No, don’t wanna be the only one you know
I wanna be the place you call home
I lay myself down
To make it so, but you don’t want to know
I give much more
Than I’d ever ask for
Will you see me in the end
Or is it just a waste of time
Trying to be your friend
Just shine, shine, shine
Shine a little light
Shine a light on my life
And warm me up again
Fool, I wonder if you know yourself at all
You know that it could be so simple
I lay myself down
To make it so, but you don’t want to know
You take much more
Than I’d ever ask for
Say a word or two to brighten my day
Do you think that you could see your way
To lay yourself down
And make it so, but you don’t want to know
You take much more
Than I’d ever ask for
….Tell me that wouldn’t be appropriate for a church service.
Comment by James Payne — March 31, 2008 @ 2:10 pm
Many of our favorite hymns are written to popular bar tunes. The Wesley brothers often did this to make songs easier to learn, and to break down barriers between the churched and the unchurched. The same can be done today with secular songs with appropriate lyrics, and with secular songs with rewritten lyrics.
Comment by Steve — April 10, 2008 @ 2:38 pm
If used in the proper manner for sermon content, a secular song could be good in a sermon. But as Bob stated, the audience could take it totally out of context and it could greatly offend “regulars”, scare off potential “new members” and attract people for the “wrong reasons”. There is a whole slew of good and bad possibilities that come along with using secular music and whichever way the Worship leader chooses to go, prayer should always be sought first before a decision and then it should be incorporated into the sermon with Christian songs-and thoroughly explained if and when used.
Comment by DOchoa — May 2, 2008 @ 11:10 am
The goal here is for edification of the whole body. There are “secular” songs out there that portray Christian themes stronger and better than most “Christian” songs I know. Regardless if the song is “secular” or “Christian”, if it is not used in the right way you are in trouble anyway. Edification is the goal.
Comment by Adam K. — May 3, 2008 @ 4:09 pm
I was able to relate to this post, for a Christian youth conference I attended in high school, I heard some secular songs playing that caught me off guard. I asked the same question Bob did in his second point: “What are people hearing as these songs are being played?” The songs were partly instrumental, cutting out verses or various portions of the songs. I figured the unchurched youth hearing these songs would think, “Typical Christians, wanting our music but editing out half the song.” I was caught off guard and personally convicted in knowing the words that were edited and that these songs were being played, edited or not, in the church.
Relating to Bob’s final paragraph, I knew not only the lyrics to these songs but also what people associated with them. I was embarrassed that these songs in all their words and underlying innuendos were playing.
The most convicting and constructive statement made by Bob is that every aspect of our services, not just the music, should be used to communicate truth. I believe all of us in the church, especially those involved in planning and carrying out, should keep this in mind.
Comment by Rachel Whitfield — May 4, 2008 @ 8:13 pm
Well Bob, you did it again, the idea of playing secular music in church is interesting. It seems as though context is the answer to whether the song is appropriate. Of course, certain songs, all with explicitives would be out of the question, unless of course, you are in some new age church that doesn’t have a problem with cussing (Cussing and still being a Christian - an issue which I stand on the fence personally).
Anyways, I strongly believe that if a worship team in a mature congregation properly addresses the reason for playing a secular song, the congregation should be able to listen to it and find the value that the team intended. Of course, most churches are made up of a variety of people with differing maturities, so listening to a secular song would mostly be distracting.
Comment by Jonathan — May 6, 2008 @ 11:49 pm
Wonderful post.
I believe that “secular” can be interpreted in many ways, especially in reference to music. In some ways, I feel like God could view even a worship/Christian song as secular if it were sung with the wrong motives. In the same way, I believe that singing a “secular” song with good, pure lyrics can please and glorify Him. As far as boundaries and crossing the line, I think that songs like “Your Body is a Wonderland” is pretty clearly an “off-limits” song for the church. It’s slightly amusing and ridiculous to me to think about a congregation singing that song together in church, as if that exalts God in any way….? Weird.
However, there are some songs like “Everything” by Lifehouse that completely relate to a Christian’s relationship with Christ. I believe singing that or something similar with the right heart and the right attitude blesses God and can bring a congregation of believers and non-believers alike together in a setting of worship.
Comment by Jessa Gray — May 7, 2008 @ 8:00 pm