There are many good commentaries and books that deal precisely with the Biblical list. I am a musician, and sorry to hurt the feelings of my fellow servants, but music did not make the list! This is not a matter of debate. As I said, there are many resources available for identifying spiritual gifts. Some groups and individuals stretch the list of spiritual gifts to include all kinds of things. The Biblical list is fairly small and specific. I might point out that you can use your genuine Gift of the Spirit while leading musically, but that music itself is not the gift. I would warn using common sense, good Bible study skills, and finding the historical, Scriptural understanding of this truth.

I observe that sometimes, we musicians take ourselves too seriously! In other words, having an attitude that “Music must be a spiritual gift!” Or, that music is “so powerful.” Yes and no. Music doesn’t compare with the genuine gifts of the Spirit.

In Him,
Keith

I’ve done some research regarding my statement regarding spiritual gifts and talents and found that talents can be given by God to anybody, believer or not, whereas spiritual gifts can only be given to believers. Then there are natural abilities which can be developed from scratch as opposed to devine spiritual gifts.One website said that someone without the gift of music who tries hard can become a better singer that someone with it who neglects it! Hopefully this will clear this debate up once and for all…

I’m responding to how Carri feels about the lady that she has on her team that “muddies” the waters of sound. We struggle with that in our teams too. Many of the people serving on our teams have been a part of our music ministry for many, many years - before there was an abundance of people who were not only available but also truly gifted in this area. They were available when needed and so, sometimes quality had to suffer in order to have a position filled. One thing that our Sr. Pastor suggested to me - which I’ll be implementing in the next few weeks - is to have someone in the church make a video (including sound) for each team that is a part of our music ministry. I’ll be showing that at a “thank you” brunch that I’m hosting for our team members & I’m trusting that God will use that video to make our people aware of where their gifts do or don’t lie. I don’t know how it will work out yet, but I’m praying that God will work it out!! He’s in control. Another thing that we’ve implemented in the past year is an audition for each person who wants to be part of a music team. They then are required to attend a minimum of 4 practices in order to see if they’re a fit or not. That has helped to bring to light weather someone is talented or gifted in the area of worship through music or not. None of this is easy. It’s a wonderful thing to know that we can trust the Lord to guide us in this - to help us deal with situations so as not to hurt people too badly, but also being humble enough to recognize our mistakes and make them right. God is the One who ultimately needs to be glorified - our pride should never stand in the way of that! I’m learning this continuously!

My point from the 1 Chronicles passage was simply that it’s possible for God to limit the number of people who serve in a leadership capacity, based on skill, gifting, and character. That’s true for both the Old and New Testaments ( 1 Pet. 4:9-111 Peter 4:9-11
[9]Show hospitality to one another without grumbling.
[10]As each has received a gift, use it to serve one
another, as good stewards of God's varied grace:
[11]whoever speaks, as one who speaks oracles of God;
whoever serves, as one who serves by the strength that God
supplies--in order that in everything God may be glorified
through Jesus Christ. To him belong glory and dominion
forever and ever. Amen. (ESV)

; 2 Tim. 2:20-212 Timothy 2:20-21
[20]Now in a great house there are not only vessels of
gold and silver but also of wood and clay, some for
honorable use, some for dishonorable. [21]Therefore, if
anyone cleanses himself from what is dishonorable, he will
be a vessel for honorable use, set apart as holy, useful to
the master of the house, ready for every good work. (ESV)

; Titus 1:5-9Titus 1:5-9
[5]This is why I left you in Crete, so that you might
put what remained into order, and appoint elders in every
town as I directed you-- [6]if anyone is above reproach,
the husband of one wife, and his children are believers and
not open to the charge of debauchery or insubordination.
[7]For an overseer, as God's steward, must be above
reproach. He must not be arrogant or quick-tempered or a
drunkard or violent or greedy for gain, [8]but hospitable,
a lover of good, self-controlled, upright, holy, and
disciplined. [9]He must hold firm to the trustworthy word
as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in
sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it.
(ESV)

; 1 Cor. 12:18-201 Corinthians 12:18-20
[18]But as it is, God arranged the members in the body,
each one of them, as he chose. [19]If all were a single
member, where would the body be? [20]As it is, there are
many parts, yet one body. (ESV)

). Simply because someone wants to serve in a particular ministry doesn’t mean they’re gifted to do so. But you’re right in saying that there’s no specific numerical limit on how many people can serve on a team. I didn’t intend to imply there was.

Spiritual gifts don’t come to us “fully fledged.” I’m sure you can detect how someone with the gift of teaching ( 1 Cor. 12:291 Corinthians 12:29
[29]Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all
teachers? Do all work miracles? (ESV)

) or hospitality ( 1 Pet. 4:91 Peter 4:9
[9]Show hospitality to one another without grumbling.
(ESV)

) or administrating ( 1 Cor. 12:281 Corinthians 12:28
[28]And God has appointed in the church first apostles,
second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts
of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of
tongues. (ESV)

) grows in their gift over time, through practice, study, diligence, and experience.

I totally agree with your last point. This is what I wrote in my original post:

A smaller skilled team serves the church more effectively, can contribute to a tighter team dynamic, and can shorten rehearsal time. A larger team involves more people musically, allows skilled players to take time off, and can facilitate training others. I’m sure there are other advantages that you can think of for each.

It’s just good to try to think through these issues from a biblical perspective.

It appears that 1 Chronicles 25:71 Chronicles 25:7
[7]The number of them along with their brothers, who
were trained in singing to the LORD, all who were skillful,
was 288. (ESV)

applies to the Levites being appointed to serve in the Temple etc under the Law of Moses, which ended with Jesus’ crucifixion and resurrection. I’d be interested to know if Jesus placed any limits on the number of people to serve musically in the New Testament.

As far as talent versus spiritual gift goes the site I referred to in my earlier post said that music is not a spiritual gift but a talent that can be learned and practised (or something to that effect). I’m not aware of any spiritual gift that can be “learned” or “practised” as they are given to us by God fully fledged if you know what I mean. I hope this clears that bit up.

If some leaders want a small, high quality worship team and others want a larger team of mixed quality it’s entirely up to them. Each church is unique and has its own needs and God has different plans for different churches so what may be right for one church may not be for another.

Thanks for your thoughts. Actually, God did set limits on the number of musicians on the worship team at times. David appointed those who were to prophesy accompanied by lyres, harps, and cymbals, and skill was a factor.

1 Chronicles 25:71 Chronicles 25:7
[7]The number of them along with their brothers, who
were trained in singing to the LORD, all who were skillful,
was 288. (ESV)

The number of them along with their brothers, who were trained in singing to the LORD, all who were skillful, was 288.

As far as music being a talent or a gift, I’m not sure I see a significant difference. Both are given by God, both can be developed for his glory. Am I missing something?

One last thing. In reading through your comment, you seem to base much of what you say on your own opinion. “In my opinion…I don’t think…I wouldn’t recommend…I don’t believe.” I’d encourage you to at least consider how there might be different perspectives for some of the viewpoints you express, and that our goal isn’t simply to share our thoughts in these matters, but to pursue God’s.

Thanks for contributing!

So my question is: what tools can I use to try to develop her vocally? We already listened to “The Vocal Coach” video as a worship team. I’ve already had a talk with her about her vocally weak areas and recommended she take voice lessons. But she excused that away. AT what point should I feel I’ve done all I can and it’s time to tell her to step down? She will be devastated and there’s no easy way around it. Any input will be appreciated! God Bless.