Comments on: How Do We Grow in Physical Expressiveness in Worship? Pt. 1 http://www.worshipmatters.com/2006/05/how-do-we-grow-in-physical-expressiveness-in-worship/ Resources for Leading Worship from Bob Kauflin Tue, 13 May 2008 12:22:03 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5 By: Benjamin http://www.worshipmatters.com/2006/05/how-do-we-grow-in-physical-expressiveness-in-worship/#comment-5904 Benjamin Sun, 27 Jan 2008 18:05:46 +0000 http://www.worshipmatters.com?p=154#comment-5904 This is a difficult issue. Thanks for speaking about it. I used to be way more expressive physically in worshiping God as a kid and adolescent. I think this is because of the atmosphere where I worshipped. It wasn't awkward to run around, dance, lift hands, or bow. There were people doing all these things or simply just standing in awe. Whatever joyous expression I wanted to do was not going to attract people's attention on me because they were doing the same. Since moving away from home, I have been to corporate worship services where homage and joy are not outwardly expressed. Of course, these things are not forbidden, but to do them would make a scene and I don't want to be the center of attention. Maybe subconsciously people think to dance and shout and lift hands is immature and by not doing those things they feel they are growing up. I don't know. All that really matters is that God is worshipped and glorified. And if inwardly is a way you can do that, then I guess that's fine. But there most definitely needs to be teaching on the appropriateness of physical expression in worshipping God. And I think you did that very well in this posting. People need to understand and be aware of the descriptive approaches to worshiping that are evident throughout Scripture. This is a difficult issue. Thanks for speaking about it. I used to be way more expressive physically in worshiping God as a kid and adolescent. I think this is because of the atmosphere where I worshipped. It wasn’t awkward to run around, dance, lift hands, or bow. There were people doing all these things or simply just standing in awe. Whatever joyous expression I wanted to do was not going to attract people’s attention on me because they were doing the same. Since moving away from home, I have been to corporate worship services where homage and joy are not outwardly expressed. Of course, these things are not forbidden, but to do them would make a scene and I don’t want to be the center of attention. Maybe subconsciously people think to dance and shout and lift hands is immature and by not doing those things they feel they are growing up. I don’t know. All that really matters is that God is worshipped and glorified. And if inwardly is a way you can do that, then I guess that’s fine. But there most definitely needs to be teaching on the appropriateness of physical expression in worshipping God. And I think you did that very well in this posting. People need to understand and be aware of the descriptive approaches to worshiping that are evident throughout Scripture.

]]> By: A. ward http://www.worshipmatters.com/2006/05/how-do-we-grow-in-physical-expressiveness-in-worship/#comment-5627 A. ward Sun, 13 Jan 2008 23:35:43 +0000 http://www.worshipmatters.com?p=154#comment-5627 What great thoughts! Like many other Americans I attend a church that is very reserved in physical expression to God. And while I do NOT downplay looking into scripture at ALL, I do think that as we do this we have to remember all of the cultural influence that were on the Jews as they worshipped in the temple. Yes, the church must remain Holy... set apart from the world, but it also must remain relevent, and able to reach people within the world. As I have studied worship, i have seen that there is no real standards or plans for style, and as far as I can see, this topic, of physical expression is merely one of style. I do agree with many of the comments above that there is a lot of hinderance and insecurity holding people back from dancing and celebrating to the Lord. Sometimes when i would like to lift my hands in celebration to the Lord, I am held back by fear of what others think. This is a problem! And at the other end, there is a problem in churches where there is much physical expression to God. I was in Kenya this summer in churches like this! In a discussion with one of them, I saw him admit to sometimes dancing to the Lord for the attention of others (not God). This is a problem! In other words, maybe our physical style is just like everything else in the Christian life... is a matter of the heart and intentions more than a matter of what is actually expressed. What great thoughts!
Like many other Americans I attend a church that is very reserved in physical expression to God. And while I do NOT downplay looking into scripture at ALL, I do think that as we do this we have to remember all of the cultural influence that were on the Jews as they worshipped in the temple. Yes, the church must remain Holy… set apart from the world, but it also must remain relevent, and able to reach people within the world. As I have studied worship, i have seen that there is no real standards or plans for style, and as far as I can see, this topic, of physical expression is merely one of style.
I do agree with many of the comments above that there is a lot of hinderance and insecurity holding people back from dancing and celebrating to the Lord. Sometimes when i would like to lift my hands in celebration to the Lord, I am held back by fear of what others think. This is a problem! And at the other end, there is a problem in churches where there is much physical expression to God. I was in Kenya this summer in churches like this! In a discussion with one of them, I saw him admit to sometimes dancing to the Lord for the attention of others (not God). This is a problem!
In other words, maybe our physical style is just like everything else in the Christian life… is a matter of the heart and intentions more than a matter of what is actually expressed.

]]> By: Catherine Alicia http://www.worshipmatters.com/2006/05/how-do-we-grow-in-physical-expressiveness-in-worship/#comment-4285 Catherine Alicia Fri, 14 Dec 2007 02:15:13 +0000 http://www.worshipmatters.com?p=154#comment-4285 I agree with a lot of things that you have had to say. You are right when you say “physical expression isn’t a main point,” but it is still a point. I am all for physical expression, but I do think that there has to be a balance with physical expression. I think that there has to be a balance of all the different aspects of expression during worship. There should be times to physically dance, but then there also should me times of silence. There should be times of singing, and times of reading. You get the point. There are those that do nothing but jump around a say “amen” over and over again and then there is the other side that stands there silent and still. I do not think either is wrong, and we all probably should spend some time doing both. God wants all of us and he wants our worship to be out of the overflow of our love for him. I think we need to worship God the way he has created us to worship. That is if you are an expressive person then be expressive in your worship for God. If you are a more silent person then be that. God has made us all different, so we will all worship different. As far as growing physical worship I think people just need to be at a place where they are comfortable, and know that physical expression is okay. That is kind of sad to write because you think that people should be comfortable physically expressing themselves to God anywhere. Maybe people just need a comfortable place to start out with…I am not sure. I agree with a lot of things that you have had to say. You are right when you say “physical expression isn’t a main point,” but it is still a point. I am all for physical expression, but I do think that there has to be a balance with physical expression. I think that there has to be a balance of all the different aspects of expression during worship. There should be times to physically dance, but then there also should me times of silence. There should be times of singing, and times of reading. You get the point.

There are those that do nothing but jump around a say “amen” over and over again and then there is the other side that stands there silent and still. I do not think either is wrong, and we all probably should spend some time doing both. God wants all of us and he wants our worship to be out of the overflow of our love for him. I think we need to worship God the way he has created us to worship. That is if you are an expressive person then be expressive in your worship for God. If you are a more silent person then be that. God has made us all different, so we will all worship different.

As far as growing physical worship I think people just need to be at a place where they are comfortable, and know that physical expression is okay. That is kind of sad to write because you think that people should be comfortable physically expressing themselves to God anywhere. Maybe people just need a comfortable place to start out with…I am not sure.

]]> By: Jordan Roberts http://www.worshipmatters.com/2006/05/how-do-we-grow-in-physical-expressiveness-in-worship/#comment-4153 Jordan Roberts Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:37:13 +0000 http://www.worshipmatters.com?p=154#comment-4153 I love what you said about how physical expression isn't a main point, but it does bring about a reflection of an inward reality. I go to Manhattan Christian College and we have chapel every tuesday morning. When we look at this more closely we see that when we have a negative attitude towards physically expressing ourselves before God, we become focused on how it affects us. "Who is looking at us? Did they see me with my hands raised? Oh dear..." We even sing about how we will fall to our knees before God, but yet, we still stand and stare out the window. I love what you said about how physical expression isn’t a main point, but it does bring about a reflection of an inward reality. I go to Manhattan Christian College and we have chapel every tuesday morning. When we look at this more closely we see that when we have a negative attitude towards physically expressing ourselves before God, we become focused on how it affects us. “Who is looking at us? Did they see me with my hands raised? Oh dear…”
We even sing about how we will fall to our knees before God, but yet, we still stand and stare out the window.

]]> By: Timothy Smith http://www.worshipmatters.com/2006/05/how-do-we-grow-in-physical-expressiveness-in-worship/#comment-488 Timothy Smith Fri, 26 May 2006 21:23:22 +0000 http://www.worshipmatters.com?p=154#comment-488 I'm looking forward to your comments. My current understanding is that not all bodily expression are equally appropriate at all times. Even though David "danced" (whirled or whatever it was) when the ark was brought into the Jerusalem there is no indication this was repeated in Temple worship. Psalm 150 appears to be a call to make all of life sacred - even those parts outside of the temple - and was not a call to make Temple more like the rest of life. The Psalm before it calls for worshipping with swords and on beds - pretty unlikely these were actually part of Temple worship. I envision these Psalms (i.e. 81,149,150) as calling us to bring Hollywood and Nashville to be more like Temple Worship rather than to make Temple worship to be more like Hollywood and Nashville. For example, the evidence is thin that the tambourine was ever used in Temple worship. It is not listed in any of the lists of "the instruments of David" in Chronicles-Nehemiah in the texts given to specifically record David's instructions for Temple worship. Absence of Tambourines in Temple worship is evidence that dancing was not part of Temple worship - the link of tambourines and dancing is very strong in Scripture. The places tambourines are mentioned (Psalm 81,149, 150) seem to indicate worship outside of the Temple during times of National celebrations of festivals. Regardless of what we think of tambourines and dancing in the Temple, discussion about bodily movement in worship must necessarily entail a theology of church worship in this age versus what worship might be when all of creation is renewed as a cosmic Temple in the age to come. I’m looking forward to your comments.

My current understanding is that not all bodily expression are equally appropriate at all times. Even though David “danced” (whirled or whatever it was) when the ark was brought into the Jerusalem there is no indication this was repeated in Temple worship.

Psalm 150

appears to be a call to make all of life sacred - even those parts outside of the temple - and was not a call to make Temple more like the rest of life. The Psalm before it calls for worshipping with swords and on beds - pretty unlikely these were actually part of Temple worship.

I envision these Psalms (i.e. 81,149,150) as calling us to bring Hollywood and Nashville to be more like Temple Worship rather than to make Temple worship to be more like Hollywood and Nashville.

For example, the evidence is thin that the tambourine was ever used in Temple worship. It is not listed in any of the lists of “the instruments of David” in Chronicles-Nehemiah in the texts given to specifically record David’s instructions for Temple worship. Absence of Tambourines in Temple worship is evidence that dancing was not part of Temple worship - the link of tambourines and dancing is very strong in Scripture. The places tambourines are mentioned ( Psalm 81,149, 150

) seem to indicate worship outside of the Temple during times of National celebrations of festivals.

Regardless of what we think of tambourines and dancing in the Temple, discussion about bodily movement in worship must necessarily entail a theology of church worship in this age versus what worship might be when all of creation is renewed as a cosmic Temple in the age to come.

]]> By: Dion Lowe http://www.worshipmatters.com/2006/05/how-do-we-grow-in-physical-expressiveness-in-worship/#comment-487 Dion Lowe Tue, 23 May 2006 22:19:27 +0000 http://www.worshipmatters.com?p=154#comment-487 Thanks for starting this topic! I am waiting with bated breath, for I too lead worship in a fairly (okay, extremely) un-expressive and un-responsive church. God bless, Dion Lowe Thanks for starting this topic! I am waiting with bated breath, for I too lead worship in a fairly (okay, extremely) un-expressive and un-responsive church.

God bless,

Dion Lowe

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